Bris pace ratings

[mikesal57]

Hi all..

does anyone utilize Bris pace ratings (E1-E2-LP) ?
spot play or in program

thxs
mike

[Otis11]

I do look at the E1 and E2 as a barometer of early speed.

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by Otis11

I do look at the E1 and E2 as a barometer of early speed.

thxs otis...I do too....a better barometer is using avg e1 for getting the best early in race...

I was hoping that someone uses it better than I do...

[Tom]

When I used BRIS more often, I added TT to E2 to get an early composite rating -

ie, E1, E2, LP 87 92 98 (92-87=5) so 5+92 = 97 for the early. This was Sartin's contender factor in one of his early dos programs - Factor S in Contender Scan.

For late, I added TT to LP, here it would be 5+98 = 103. This horse would be a 97-103. To make it a total pace type rating, add the SR to that 103. Doing this in the Derby made the winner look pretty good at the odds. As seen after the race was over.

Randy Guiles had a neat way of doing things - using the last three races and the best E2 and Best Lp for each horse, then using his Optimum Pace Model to evaluate the results.

[mikesal57]

thxs Tom....

What a can of worms i can open up here...being E2 as the early call when its 2/3's of the race in a 6 fur dist..anyway

lets reverse your numbers and say horse B is 92-87-98

so you would have 87-92= -5 ...... -5+92=87 as the early figure


so horse A's 97 would be tons better than horse B 87 that has a 2-3 lt lead after the 1st call....hmmmm

I was hoping for a more unconventional way of using it...

thxs
mike

[Robert Goren]

I look at them(E1). There are probably better numbers out there but I use what is free. Sometjmes you can find a horse moving up in class with a 5 pt advantage that is going off with good odds. You can find short priced favorites front runner who hasn't shown the rating needed to the lead and toss him. Probably useful in about one race a day.

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I look at them(E1). There are probably better numbers out there but I use what is free. Sometjmes you can find a horse moving up in class with a 5 pt advantage that is going off with good odds. You can find short priced favorites front runner who hasn't shown the rating needed to the lead and toss him. Probably useful in about one race a day.

Thxs RG...


Your right..FREE...is better and adds to the bottom line...the less we spend the better...correct?

"useful in about one race a day"
I work 5 days/40 hours a week..and make $500( pls dont laugh )
So if I can get that "one" race and bet 20 bucks and cash a $18 horse.....

wouldnt you?

mike

my bottom line is to quit working!!

[michiken]

Tom.

I wonder who taught you those bris fig tweaks?

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by michiken

Tom.

I wonder who taught you those bris fig tweaks?

thxs for chiming in....

would you want to comment on how you use them?

thxs
mike

[Tom]

Originally Posted by michiken

Tom.

I wonder who taught you those bris fig tweaks?

Some guy who used to post here I think......Chicago-Chuck, or something like that!

A search of your posts on the subject would be well worth the time spent....

[cnollfan]

I use the Bris pace figs but I throw out most horses' highest score to avoid some of the wacky numbers.

[riskman]

Originally Posted by mikesal57

thxs Tom....

What a can of worms i can open up here...being E2 as the early call when its 2/3's of the race in a 6 fur dist..anyway

lets reverse your numbers and say horse B is 92-87-98

so you would have 87-92= -5 ...... -5+92=87 as the early figure


so horse A's 97 would be tons better than horse B 87 that has a 2-3 lt lead after the 1st call....hmmmm

I was hoping for a more unconventional way of using it...

thxs
mike

Have you read this?
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=pace

Also suggest that you read the articles on Pace Handicapping here:
http://www.brisnet.com/library/major_topic_index.pdf

Nothing is easy. The information is in the library.
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=library

[raybo]

Quoted from Brisnet:

"Unlike the BRIS Speed Ratings which employ a differing points-per-length scale depending on the race distance, the BRIS Pace Ratings use a fixed scale of 2-points-per-length for all pace calls (2f,4f, etc.) - regardless of the race distance. The fixed 2-points-per-length scale is based on the fact that, regardless of the entire race's distance, the ground covered for any given pace call (2f,4f,etc.) is the same - that is, a 1/4 mile call is equal to two furlongs regardless of whether the entire race is six furlongs or ten furlongs (1 1/4 miles). Since the pace calls being measured are equivalent across differing distances ( a 1/2 mile call in a sprint is the same distance as a 1/2 mile call in a route), the BRIS Pace Ratings use the same 2-points-per-length scaling for all pace calls across all distances."

Now, you tell me, in a sprint race versus a route race, is a length the same? 2 points per length, regardless of the distance or the speed being run by the horses at any point of call, is utterly ridiculous.

This is why I don't use Bris pace ratings in my own handicapping (even though I've been a Bris data user for many years), preferring to adjust the raw times myself and use variable beaten length multipliers and fractional variants, all converted to velocities.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by raybo

Quoted from Brisnet:

"Unlike the BRIS Speed Ratings which employ a differing points-per-length scale depending on the race distance, the BRIS Pace Ratings use a fixed scale of 2-points-per-length for all pace calls (2f,4f, etc.) - regardless of the race distance. The fixed 2-points-per-length scale is based on the fact that, regardless of the entire race's distance, the ground covered for any given pace call (2f,4f,etc.) is the same - that is, a 1/4 mile call is equal to two furlongs regardless of whether the entire race is six furlongs or ten furlongs (1 1/4 miles). Since the pace calls being measured are equivalent across differing distances ( a 1/2 mile call in a sprint is the same distance as a 1/2 mile call in a route), the BRIS Pace Ratings use the same 2-points-per-length scaling for all pace calls across all distances."

Now, you tell me, in a sprint race versus a route race, is a length the same? 2 points per length, regardless of the distance or the speed being run by the horses at any point of call, is utterly ridiculous.

This is why I don't use Bris pace ratings in my own handicapping (even though I've been a Bris data user for many years), preferring to adjust the raw times myself and use variable beaten length multipliers and fractional variants, all converted to velocities.

Excellent reply
So how have your calculations stod up agaist Brisnet speed numbers

[raybo]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Excellent reply
So how have your calculations stod up agaist Brisnet speed numbers

Well, since I haven't used Bris speed numbers either, in years (due to my not knowing exactly how they are computed and, therefore, distrusting them), I couldn't really say, although they should be better than their pace ratings, because they do, at least, distinguish between distances via a sliding points per length scale, where the pace numbers do not.

I might add that one could, if one wanted to, add all the fractional velocities together, to get a total, weighting the 3 velocities as one sees fit, to get something that could be used instead of the Bris speed figs.