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Old 06-12-2019, 02:13 AM   #196
horsefan2019
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Same people showing up for the same cause time and time again. Out of the good of their pocketbook....
There are more than one animal activst group that are against the sport. I'm pretty sure they have their own goals that are divergent from PETA. Whatever it is, these people are organizing and spending lots of time and money to protest.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:02 PM   #197
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A lot of people don't want a cat that's going to claw up the furniture.
Hence, there are lots of other choices they have for pet ownership. Cats should not be included.

Dogs shed and leave fur on your furniture. Children tear up furniture, too.

Furniture is never, in the scheme of values, going to be more important than a living, sentient being. Best to opt for an aquarium or cage-based pet for furniture-centric people.

I agree with you about dead or declawed, however if you declawed cat ever leaves the safe confines of the house, declawing them almost ensures their death, since you have removed their entire defense system that they were BORN WITH. Seems very cruel to me, esp. if you're doing it for *furniture*.

I know you are against declawing and probably for same reason.


My beautiful yellow lab having just died of old age, I would give anybody all my furniture if I could have him back. He was the best dog I ever had in 60 years and I've had a lot of 'em.

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Old 06-15-2019, 10:14 PM   #198
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Hence, there are lots of other choices they have for pet ownership. Cats should not be included.

Dogs shed and leave fur on your furniture. Children tear up furniture, too.

Furniture is never, in the scheme of values, going to be more important than a living, sentient being. Best to opt for an aquarium or cage-based pet for furniture-centric people.

I agree with you about dead or declawed, however if you declawed cat ever leaves the safe confines of the house, declawing them almost ensures their death, since you have removed their entire defense system that they were BORN WITH. Seems very cruel to me, esp. if you're doing it for *furniture*.

I know you are against declawing and probably for same reason.


My beautiful yellow lab having just died of old age, I would give anybody all my furniture if I could have him back. He was the best dog I ever had in 60 years and I've had a lot of 'em.
Whether or not people should declaw their cats is not the same as whether it should be branded as illegal and the government/law enforcement enact punishments and fines against it. I'm against declawing but don't think people should be fined or jailed if they do so.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:14 PM   #199
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Whether or not people should declaw their cats is not the same as whether it should be branded as illegal and the government/law enforcement enact punishments and fines against it. I'm against declawing but don't think people should be fined or jailed if they do so.
While I agree with you in sentiment, and certainly don't believe in jail or fines for people who declaw cats, I have mixed feeling about no regulations when it comes to pets since that is exactly what allows states like Missouri to be one of the top puppy mill states in the U.S.

All I can say is that unless you have visited a few of these in a rescue operation (which you would need brain bleach to overcome for the rest of your life) the untold level of suffering and pain for these animals is rather overwhelming. This is precisely because Missouri does not have *harsh* laws against doing stuff to animals that you *own*.

So I am not totally against regulations to protect living feeling beings, it just depends on the level of course, and jailing/fining people who declaw does seem pretty much overboard.

Declawing (w/out anesthetic!) should be reserved to be practiced only *on* humans who run puppy mills.

Last edited by clicknow; 06-16-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:12 PM   #200
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So I am not totally against regulations to protect living feeling beings, it just depends on the level of course,
I did a job with a company that raised breeding chickens. We drove from Georgia to Missouri visiting their various operations.

The one thing that struck me as inhumane was the way hatchlings were treated. The eggs with chicks inside were kept in big drawers under a heat lamp. As the chicks started hatching some of them were weak and wouldn't make it. Others were deformed. etc etc etc.

The healthy ones they kept. The unhealthy ones were tossed into a big plastic trash can lined with a large garbage bag. When the garbage bag filled up they pulled it out of the trash can and disposed of it somewhere -- dumpster? incinerator?

The chickens that were healthy were then raised in black-out barns. The light was regulated to boost their growth cycle, I assume. I seem to recall the chickens only lived for 6 weeks before they were slaughtered.

That's industrial farming for you.

Think about that next time you have chicken for dinner. Or not. You might lose your appetite for chicken.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:27 PM   #201
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That's industrial farming for you.

Think about that next time you have chicken for dinner. Or not. You might lose your appetite for chicken.
Its actually much worse for pigs, who apparently are more intelligent than dogs.

Let's not go there, industrial farming is not pleasant.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:30 PM   #202
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Its actually much worse for pigs, who apparently are more intelligent than dogs.

Let's not go there, industrial farming is not pleasant.
cant have industrialized large populations without industrial farming, across all levels of that spectrum.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:55 AM   #203
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Hence, there are lots of other choices they have for pet ownership. Cats should not be included.

Dogs shed and leave fur on your furniture. Children tear up furniture, too.

Furniture is never, in the scheme of values, going to be more important than a living, sentient being. Best to opt for an aquarium or cage-based pet for furniture-centric people.

I agree with you about dead or declawed, however if you declawed cat ever leaves the safe confines of the house, declawing them almost ensures their death, since you have removed their entire defense system that they were BORN WITH. Seems very cruel to me, esp. if you're doing it for *furniture*.

I know you are against declawing and probably for same reason.


My beautiful yellow lab having just died of old age, I would give anybody all my furniture if I could have him back. He was the best dog I ever had in 60 years and I've had a lot of 'em.
If you don't think this ISN'T going to be a factor for a family looking for their first pet, and are considering a cat, then you're not thinking clearly.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:22 AM   #204
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If you don't think this ISN'T going to be a factor for a family looking for their first pet, and are considering a cat, then you're not thinking clearly.
Never said it wasn't a factor.

Thinking clearly includes the undestanding that many people are somewhat selfish and shallow, and would think nothing of removing a cat's primary defense system and protection, to protect an inanimate piece of furniture.

Sort of like people who are not active, and have no time for a pet, get an active breed dog, which quite often eventually ends up in a rescue shelter somewhere.

And we're supposed to be the smart, thinking, compassionate species with brains and logic.

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Old 06-25-2019, 08:39 AM   #205
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Sort of like people who are not active, and have no time for a pet, get an active breed dog, which quite often eventually ends up in a rescue shelter somewhere.
This reminds me one of my neighbors down the hall. We live in a large high rise apartment complex in a metropolitan area and she's a student (and works) and hardly ever home. That didn't stop her from getting a large Lab- bulldog mix and leaving in her apartment barking all day while she is out. Thankfully I don't work from home.
A thinking species with brains and logic humans are not (by and large).


Going back to the declawed cat vs dead cat question: if both the surgery and the euthanasia were performed under humane circumstances, then the dead cat is better. At least it's not being forced to exist in a surgically mutilated deformed state (reminds me of the Almodóvar film, ick). The worst people are the ones (and I have seen this a number of times in practice) who get their cats declawed and then proceed to let them outdoors. Logic, thinking... nope!
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:33 AM   #206
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If you don't think this ISN'T going to be a factor for a family looking for their first pet, and are considering a cat, then you're not thinking clearly.
I have owned mostly declawed cats. While I cannot speak to how the animal feels about the process, I can say that besides walking gingerly for 24 hours or so, none of the cats have had declawed has ever shown any other symptom. One day later, you would not be able to tell they were operated on. I am guessing in the relative scheme of things that spaying or neutering involves more physical and especially mental issues than declawing.

The decision to declaw was made by my parents when I was young for our first cats...after that when additional cats were brought into the house it was done to level the playing field. It should be noted that all my cats are 100% indoor.

Some cats are more destructive than others by temperament, but when it comes to the kitty pecking order, no quarter is shown to a rival who is missing his defenses. And beside the threat of physical abuse to the declawed cat, they will often react by engaging in actions to express their displeasure, such as peeing on/marking everything in sight.

Recently we had a shelter cat and a purebred siamese who were both older and both came down with cancer. Both were operated on; one had her leg amputated. When a neighbor unexpectedly died, their barn cat was left on its own. We found this fellow, an adult manx. eating bread my wife put out for the birds> It was the middle of winter, and we decided to try and help him. We decided we would at the very least make him a sunroom cat if he was untrainable or feline HIV or leukemia positive. Luckily, except for some ticks and a broken tooth, he was ok. It took a while for him to enjoy his life as a homebody, and he turned out to be very smart and friendly. however, we declawed him because we didn't want to take a chance with our two cancer sufferers.

Fast forward, and after the cancer victims had succumbed, a coworker offered us two feral cats she had taken in as kittens. She had tried to give them away twice before but they would immediately hide in their new home so the folks involved brought them back. They were fixed, but had claws. And when they joined us, they immediately spent every hour teaming up on the Manx. Who it turns out could have kept his claws...he, nearly a decade alter, has turned out to be a fine gentleman. Well, the newcomers had to be declawed to keep the peace, as the Manx starting acting up to show his displeasure.

Our newest addition, though, has his claws. Besides treating our bedroom rug like a scratching post, he is non aggressive with his claws and non destructive. He did enter the herd as a kitten though, which may have reduced the chance of aggressive encounter. The breeder we bought him from has a contract which forbids declawing, and although good luck enforcing that, we did decided to roll with it. If he had been a ornery fellow we would have tried the soft nail coverings, but he has been an absolute gentlemen. And even as he has gotten bigger, he at 2 is the biggest cat of the bunch, he is non aggressive by personality. He does not use his claws to abuse his elders, but I must say he has never had an altercation with any of buddies in nearly three years of any kind.

From my experience then, declawing is no crueler than other accepted procedures like spaying and neutering. Frankly folks do the latter for behavior modification as much as anything else. Further, keeping your cat outdoors even with claws is far worse for the cat's well being then an indoor declawed cat. Twenty four hours of mild discomfort seems like a small price to pay to have a forever home, and I agree that laws to outlaw declawing are misplaced and not in the interest of the poor kitties looking for a home.

This is all just from my experiences in 40+ years of cat ownership, and I realize that caring, thoughtful folks out there may disagree.
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