Formely Matt Carothers thread, but hijacked by Vic

[PaceAdvantage]

I agree...clown show over

[Poindexter]

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I agree...clown show over

Did I miss something? We're there posts deleted?

I was busy watching someone named A. Salgado almost kill himself and his horse by running up on heels and flat out dropping himself in a race at Parx. Very scary.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI.

Are you only allowed to produce "caveman" tickets all the time?....How about showing multi-tickets with some of your keys? And why are you limited by what you can "mythically" wager, such as $40-60 max?....TVG always looking for the small player to be involved, I guess.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI.

Fair enough, but part of the search mechanism can be by track as well. So while you may be up 5% on your check marks for Belmont, you might be down 15% at Finger Lakes and 30% at Hawthorne.. All that should be decipherable. Seasoned horseplayers know how hard it is to show a positive roi when playing every race. This is just a way for the public to handicap cappers to see whose opinion is of more value than someone elses. IF you have a .85 return on your check marks and capper x has a .65% roi on his check marks, should that info not be made available to the public? I also suggest that plays be rated as strong, regular or action and the roi on each should be seperated. So my search might be for Vic Stauffer, Belmont, Last 6 Months, and te results would be displayed,

Strong 15 plays 6 wins +21% roi
Regular 98 plays 27 wins +7% roi
Action 198 plays 40 wins -21% roi

That gives the public all the info they need to make informed decision about handicappers. If they wanted to they could add dirt/turf, sprint/route to the filters as well.

Imo there is no reason no to provide the public this information. If the public is going to listen to hosts give their handicapping theories for hour at a time, shouldn't they at least have access to how good a handicapper that host is?

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

A horseplayer has his Pick 5 ticket made out and then watches someone like Andy Serling talk about a vulnerable favorite in one of the legs that raced against the bias or on a golden rail and said horseplayer restructures his ticket using that info and hits a nice Pick 5 because of that info. Do you think that horseplayer will care whether Andy went 1 for 9 or 5 for 9 with his picks that day?

It's not all about PICKS. it's about INFORMATION.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

A horseplayer has his Pick 5 ticket made out and then watches someone like Andy Serling talk about a vulnerable favorite in one of the legs that raced against the bias or on a golden rail and said horseplayer restructures his ticket using that info and hits a nice Pick 5 because of that info. Do you think that horseplayer will care whether Andy went 1 for 9 or 5 for 9 with his picks that day?

It's not all about PICKS. it's about INFORMATION.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Who is asking Andy Serling not to say a favorite is vulnerable because he took advantage of a golden rail? I simply want him and every other handicapper to have their picks tracked so the public has and idea of what they are capable of. This has nothing to do with their abilities to host a show and both educate and entertain the public. One has nothing to do with the other. I feel that it their long term records and roi is basic information that should be provided to the public, good or bad. Not suggesting that the host be replaced because their record sucks either. It is just additional information that I believe should be provided. But if a handicapper is only getting back 50 cents on the dollar long term and he is providing me his worlds of wisdom, I would like to know those pearls are likely not worth much.

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Who is asking Andy Serling not to say a favorite is vulnerable because he took advantage of a golden rail? I simply want him and every other handicapper to have their picks tracked so the public has and idea of what they are capable of. This has nothing to do with their abilities to host a show and both educate and entertain the public. One has nothing to do with the other. I feel that it their long term records and roi is basic information that should be provided to the public, good or bad. Not suggesting that the host be replaced because their record sucks either. It is just additional information that I believe should be provided. But if a handicapper is only getting back 50 cents on the dollar long term and he is providing me his worlds of wisdom, I would like to know those pearls are likely not worth much.

If it's that important to you track them yourself. Problem solved.

My point, which you did not seem to comprehend, is that a handicappers value is not just based on how many top winners he picks. In this day and age of Pick 4 and Pick 5's, nobody gives a crap about a handicappers ROI with his top picks anymore.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Did I miss something? We're there posts deleted?

No posts were deleted.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

....Imo there is no reason no to provide the public this information. If the public is going to listen to hosts give their handicapping theories for hour at a time, shouldn't they at least have access to how good a handicapper that host is?

Posting results can also be misleading. A huge P-4 win on the first day of the meet might mean a positive ROI for the entire meet. A casual watcher might tune in one day and see a positive ROI and bet based on that info alone.

I believe that the best thing a host can do is provide information. Bad break, traffic trouble, bore in bore out, didn't change leads, etc. If good information can be disseminated by the host then why should anybody care about an ROI.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Are you only allowed to produce "caveman" tickets all the time?....How about showing multi-tickets with some of your keys? And why are you limited by what you can "mythically" wager, such as $40-60 max?....TVG always looking for the small player to be involved, I guess.

Forgive me but what is a caveman ticket? When I first started I asked about putting in tickets that were larger the $50.00. I was told a $50.00 bet for the average player is a massive bet. I've come to find out that is very true. We don't want to crush out players' bankrolls if we go on a cold streak.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I agree...clown show over

I asked if I missed something because of this statement about the clown show being over. I didn't understand that.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Posting results can also be misleading. A huge P-4 win on the first day of the meet might mean a positive ROI for the entire meet. A casual watcher might tune in one day and see a positive ROI and bet based on that info alone.

I believe that the best thing a host can do is provide information. Bad break, traffic trouble, bore in bore out, didn't change leads, etc. If good information can be disseminated by the host then why should anybody care about an ROI.

Strong post.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I asked if I missed something because of this statement about the clown show being over. I didn't understand that.

And I answered you that no posts were deleted.