9th at Cby!!! Were the results Incorrect?

[Jeffwb]

WOW, I never thought I would see this but a dead heat was awarded when in the 9th last night (August 27th) horse #4 CLEARLY wins by just over a nose. I encourage anyone that cares to watch replay and wait until they play the slow motion replay. I had NO wagers on this race, but WHAT ON EARTH?? This replay does not come on right away so wait a minute or so after the race wraps up and they show it in a super slow mo. The #4 won the race.

[cj]

Did they post a photo. I timed that race from video and got as close as I can to the finish and they look pretty darn close, I sure can't tell. There are the two frames, one as close as I could get to the wire, one right after.

[cj]

Actual photo is in this tweet:

Twitter

[Jeffwb]

I'm watching at the 4:35 mark of the Twinspires.com replay of the race. It's actually really clear once the race is slowed down. In live I could not tell, but under super slow mo it's really obvious.

[Jeffwb]

@Jmouse83 Thanks for posting the photo! I had not seen that. But it is certainly strange when watching that video super slow mo and Canterbury has one of the best slow motion replays in the business.

[Jeff P]

Imo, the slow motion video replay camera at Cantebury gives a misleading view of close finishes because it appears to be located off to one side of the finish line (which is a theoretical plane extending out into space at a 90 degree angle from the center of the mirror.)

The photo finish camera is located right on the finish line.

Two separate cameras each mounted at a different angle relative to the finish line.




-jp

.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Imo, the slow motion video replay camera at Cantebury gives a misleading view of close finishes because it appears to be located off to one side of the finish line (which is a theoretical plane extending out into space at a 90 degree angle from the center of the mirror.)

The photo finish camera is located right on the finish line.

Two separate cameras each mounted at a different angle relative to the finish line.




-jp

.

Exactly, this is why you can't really go be replays. The cameras are rarely ever on the finish line in the US. That spot is reserved for the photo camera.

[Jeffwb]

Thanks all for clarifying. That is as bizarre of case of angles that I have ever seen in my time watching horse racing.

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb

Thanks all for clarifying. That is as bizarre of case of angles that I have ever seen in my time watching horse racing.

Maybe I'm missing it, but it certainly seems like the 4 is ahead on the photo. That's what you call winning by a nose. What am I missing?

[Jeffwb]

I'm still not entirely convinced that my initial claim is wrong. Even in the photo it looks like the #4 is ever so slightly past the line and the #6 is ever so slightly not at the line. I think for me this raises how much horse racing in general needs to do a better job with providing more detail in these photos. But I also do get, as I said in my prior post, that the angle of the replay cam is deceptive. But in this case it almost seems it could not be that deceptive?

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb

I'm still not entirely convinced that my initial claim is wrong. Even in the photo it looks like the #4 is ever so slightly past the line and the #6 is ever so slightly not at the line. I think for me this raises how much horse racing in general needs to do a better job with providing more detail in these photos. But I also do get, as I said in my prior post, that the angle of the replay cam is deceptive. But in this case it almost seems it could not be that deceptive?

But the photo in cj's post above is official right? If so, as one of the Twitter posters wrote, "That looks like the 4 is there and there’s a note card width between the 6 and the line." Perfectly said.

I can't speak for all tracks, but as a regular follower and fan of Canterbury, it can be frustrating how little is communicated about how decisions are made. This applies for DQs, horses that get "stuck" in the gate, photo finishes, etc. Paul Allen does his best to communicate where info is available, but I wish CBY had someone on site who you could talk to post race to ask questions.

[Jeffwb]

Originally Posted by CBYRacer

But the photo in cj's post above is official right? If so, as one of the Twitter posters wrote, "That looks like the 4 is there and there’s a note card width between the 6 and the line." Perfectly said.

I can't speak for all tracks, but as a regular follower and fan of Canterbury, it can be frustrating how little is communicated about how decisions are made. This applies for DQs, horses that get "stuck" in the gate, photo finishes, etc. Paul Allen does his best to communicate where info is available, but I wish CBY had someone on site who you could talk to post race to ask questions.

I think PA does a good job of explaining on the DQs as best he can to let fans know of what the stewards gave to him. I totally agree regarding the Twitter quote that you referenced. But I think this comes down to a stewards decision based on how close that was (agree or not). I wonder if Vanwinkle has considered an appeal. Now that I know everything about this I kind of doubt it. For me it was a learning experience about just how much of an angle exists between the replay camera and the actual finish line. That replay cam always tends to make it so clear to me in slow motion (or has in the past). As an aside, years ago when I lived in Shakopee, there was a quarter horse race where I felt they got it wrong, kind of like this. They actually let me go down and talk to the person who handles photos! That person has their own office. I'm not sure that he was the one who makes the decision, but he did have a photo to show to me and was really cool. I think I was in the basement there. I think all tracks need to be more forthright in this regard. And the photos must be able to be made more clear where one can easily zoom in and clearly see. When I look at the photo and the replay together, I still believe the 4 won. But it's close enough that I am wanting for a better quality photo to look at. It's possible that the stewards had that and both noses were on the line. I agree all of that should be made easily available to the public. But it's a horse racing industry issue I think.

[cj]

Originally Posted by CBYRacer

But the photo in cj's post above is official right? If so, as one of the Twitter posters wrote, "That looks like the 4 is there and there’s a note card width between the 6 and the line." Perfectly said.

I can't speak for all tracks, but as a regular follower and fan of Canterbury, it can be frustrating how little is communicated about how decisions are made. This applies for DQs, horses that get "stuck" in the gate, photo finishes, etc. Paul Allen does his best to communicate where info is available, but I wish CBY had someone on site who you could talk to post race to ask questions.

You understand the line is not part of the photo, right? It is something the stewards use to try to see if there is a gap between the noses of the two horses. The pictures posted are also probably not the official photos, but a condensed image of such. Some of the crispness is lost.

There really is nothing to see here. The photo system works. It has been proven many times over in many different sports.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

There really is nothing to see here. The photo system works. It has been proven many times over in many different sports.

Except for Songbird.

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by cj

You understand the line is not part of the photo, right? It is something the stewards use to try to see if there is a gap between the noses of the two horses. The pictures posted are also probably not the official photos, but a condensed image of such. Some of the crispness is lost.

There really is nothing to see here. The photo system works. It has been proven many times over in many different sports.

I’m sure you are likely correct regarding the outcome, but there is still value in creating transparency for your fans / client base. Why is that unreasonable for people to expect that? And, transparency is not posting just a compressed photo that creates more questions than answers.