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Old 08-10-2015, 07:28 AM   #751
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Careful there, Bill is in the hospital this morning.
Emergency surgery last night - had to have an intern removed from his lap.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:16 AM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox
Really? You stereotype conservative males as crude red necks eh?
William F. Buckley never had much impact on conservative males, according to you apparently.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
Bill Buckley had an influence on me when I was young. I still agree with his writing on many things, certainly not all. The modern conservative movement has very little in common with Buckley. He would definitely fall into the RINO group that modern conservatives have such a disdain for. Trump hits a home run with some who are not happy with the way the government is run. Ironically, it is the election of people like Trump that guarantees that none of their agenda will come to pass. Liberal democrats use to be in the same boat. Then Bill Clinton came along and show them that they could get most of their agenda enacted, but it had to be done through comprise and one piece at a time. I see posters here that they are unwilling to comprise on anything. To me, they are just proving John Stuart Mill correct. As a liberal, I hope keep on doing just what they are doing, Pounding their chests over victories that will do nothing other than help the democrats keep their agenda in place and eventually get more of it passed.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:17 AM   #753
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As a life-long fan of Firing Line and Buckley, I think it is safe to say that Buckley would have despised Trump as candidate. Here's the most recent National Review article of attack
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-d-williamson

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Last edited by bettheoverlay; 08-10-2015 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 08-10-2015, 11:18 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by bettheoverlay
As a life-long fan of Firing Line and Buckley, I think it is safe to say that Buckley would have despised Trump as candidate. Here's the most recent National Review article of attack
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-d-williamson

.
I think "despise" would be a bit strong for Buckley. Disdain might be more accurate.

And I think some of the folks at the National Review are overreacting a bit to Trump and taking him too seriously. Trump is a symptom of the current political problem, not a realistic solution. I think Fred Barnes at the Weekly Standard has a better read on the situation.

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Republicans have been slow in recognizing the real damage Donald Trump is doing to their party. The harm is not to the party’s image. What Trump has done is exacerbate the increasingly bitter rift between the party’s leaders and its grass roots. He’s made the GOP’s future dicey.

The quarter of the Republican electorate Trump has attracted consists largely of this alienated group. Since he voices their resentment of Republican elites – especially their arch-enemies in Congress – he’s become their champion. And champions are hard to dethrone.

“The Republican party created Donald Trump, because they made lot of promises to their base and never kept them,” Erick Erickson, the conservative editor of RedState, told Molly Ball of the Atlantic.

Erickson is right. “At this point, most of the people I encounter on radio and on the internet, they’re not really people who at the end of the day want to vote for Donald Trump,” Erickson said. “But they sure do like that he’s burning down the Republican Party that never listened to them to begin with.”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...html?nopager=1
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Old 08-10-2015, 11:38 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by Tom
Careful there, Bill is in the hospital this morning.
Emergency surgery last night - had to have an intern removed from his lap.
I'm surprised they haven't tried to convince us that they just keep growing back.
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:17 PM   #756
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

John Stuart Mill wrote in the 19th century, at a time when the terms liberal and conservative meant exactly the opposite of what they mean today. Given the meaning of the terms as used by Mill, he was correct.

A 19th century conservative in Britain was a monarchist and believed in big government.

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Conservatives believed in tradition and hierarchy to govern over a nation. There were three main essential anchors of social harmony: Monarchy, Aristocracy and Church. They did not believe that all men were created equal, and that some men were in fact born greater than others. A nation has to have a wide reach into the lives of its citizens and that each nation was dedicated to increasing the power of the nation.
http://westerncivguides.umwblogs.org...eenth-century/
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:15 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
I see posters here that they are unwilling to comprise on anything.
It's easy to compromise when the middle ground is halfway between where we already are and where you want to go.

Let's say you want to raise taxes from 35% to 40%. A compromise is 37.5%. That should make you happy.

The problem with that logic is that it's NOT a compromise. Conservatives want taxes to be lowered from 35% to 30%. So 35% is already a compromise. If conservatives compromise to 37.5% they have lost ground. Not only that, but they can be 100% certain you will back in a few years asking for 45% and settling for a compromise of 40%.

Conservatives want the power to come to you and say we want tax rates of 30%, but we'll compromise to 32.5% if you also slow the growth of the spending to sustainable levels.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:01 PM   #758
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper
It's easy to compromise when the middle ground is halfway between where we already are and where you want to go.

Let's say you want to raise taxes from 35% to 40%. A compromise is 37.5%. That should make you happy.

The problem with that logic is that it's NOT a compromise. Conservatives want taxes to be lowered from 35% to 30%. So 35% is already a compromise. If conservatives compromise to 37.5% they have lost ground. Not only that, but they can be 100% certain you will back in a few years asking for 45% and settling for a compromise of 40%.

Conservatives want the power to come to you and say we want tax rates of 30%, but we'll compromise to 32.5% if you also slow the growth of the spending to sustainable levels.
a 40% tax rate on the rich is half of what it was when this country was enjoy its big boom, 1950s. Any further cuts would be a major victory for the conservatives and probably bad for the country as a whole. Economy of this country is not in trouble because the rich have too little money. Even the big corporations admit that they are not developing new products because the rest of the population does not have enough money to pay for them. So they are doing things like buying back their own stock with their cash on hand. Most of that buy back money goes right back into the hands of the top 1% create an even greater unbalance. Taxes laws which are written by the rich for the rich many of whom favor very short term forms of investment.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:38 PM   #759
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
a 40% tax rate on the rich is half of what it was when this country was enjoy its big boom, 1950s.
Do you think anyone actually paid anywhere near the top bracket rate back then? Anyone making that much money had accountants and lawyers by the dozens making sure nothing near that amount was paid.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:45 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
I see posters here that they are unwilling to comprise on anything.
Yes. Democrats.
Show where one of them was willing to compromise anything.

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Old 08-10-2015, 04:04 PM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
a 40% tax rate on the rich is half of what it was when this country was enjoy its big boom, 1950s. Any further cuts would be a major victory for the conservatives and probably bad for the country as a whole. Economy of this country is not in trouble because the rich have too little money. Even the big corporations admit that they are not developing new products because the rest of the population does not have enough money to pay for them. So they are doing things like buying back their own stock with their cash on hand. Most of that buy back money goes right back into the hands of the top 1% create an even greater unbalance. Taxes laws which are written by the rich for the rich many of whom favor very short term forms of investment.
I was making a theoretical point about compromise, not arguing taxation.

Any argument about taxes would have to incorporate all the writeoffs that were available at any give time. Federal government tax revenue as a % of GDP is higher now than at times when the tax rate was much higher. The true tax rate was lower back then.

I agree that there is an imbalance of wealth, but that's not an argument for higher taxes on the wealthy so you can transfer money to others. That's an argument for closing our borders so cheaper labor is not as readily available in the US in some industries. We might also want to examine our trade deals, our education system, our regulations, our health care costs etc... that make investing in the US a worse idea than buying back shares.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:54 PM   #762
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An interesting story about one of Mr Trumps kids.



http://www.timesofisrael.com/how-jew...p-stay-classy/

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Old 08-11-2015, 09:57 AM   #763
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Never did Fox news speak about the economy, jobs or Ford Motor Co decision to build a 2 Billion Dollar Plant in Mexico nor the Oil Pipeline from Canada . No Fox News chose to ambush Trump, America no longer wants a smooth talking politician as president........
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:26 AM   #764
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Never did Fox news speak about the economy, jobs or Ford Motor Co decision to build a 2 Billion Dollar Plant in Mexico nor the Oil Pipeline from Canada . No Fox News chose to ambush Trump, America no longer wants a smooth talking politician as president........
Trump said it best -- as has been the case since this GOP presidential campaign began -- in the very first volley from the Fox 'journalists' asking him about his immigration theme -- when he said, and I paraphrase: 'you never would have asked this question if I didn't bring this issue up in the first place. You would have ignored it.'

The GOP better wake up, and fast because both Trump and the average citizen -- who are quite possibly the true coveted independents -- know what the real issues are in 2016.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:48 AM   #765
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
a 40% tax rate on the rich is half of what it was when this country was enjoy its big boom, 1950s. Any further cuts would be a major victory for the conservatives and probably bad for the country as a whole. Economy of this country is not in trouble because the rich have too little money. Even the big corporations admit that they are not developing new products because the rest of the population does not have enough money to pay for them. So they are doing things like buying back their own stock with their cash on hand. Most of that buy back money goes right back into the hands of the top 1% create an even greater unbalance. Taxes laws which are written by the rich for the rich many of whom favor very short term forms of investment.
How much do you really know about taxes? If you would like to go over the code section by section you will see that most of the provisions hurt the high earners.

If a corporation is buying back stock they are doing it in the open market. Even if they did buy it from one of their wealthy shareholders how would that increase the shareholder's wealth? Selling $100 million dollars of stock for $100 million is not an increase in wealth.
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