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Old 06-09-2010, 08:00 PM   #16
thaskalos
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Andy Beyer has never called himself a "professional" horseplayer.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acorn54
doesn't andy beyer have a steady job as a writer? and he gets income for the speed figures he sells.
i know he documented way back when a year where he made fifty thousand.
but how does anyone know if he makes that kind of money on a consistent basis without seeing his tax return?
He writes part-time. He gets a check from the DRF for the use of his name on the speed rating. He is what people call semi-retired. I have no idea if make money betting on horses anymore.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:05 PM   #18
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Hey Patrick !!

My unsolicited advice to you is to stay with a real job w/ health insurance and play the horses for fun. It is a great feeling to cash big tix now and then but to have to do that as a source of living .... gotta be tough !!

Good luck my friend !!
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj's dad
My unsolicited advice to you is to stay with a real job w/ health insurance and play the horses for fun. It is a great feeling to cash big tix now and then but to have to do that as a source of living .... gotta be tough !!

Good luck my friend !!
Most of the time when people say they have hit rock bottom it means they don't have a real job with health insurance.

There was an expert interviewed on the local public radio station saying many unemployed people between the ages 25-55 (the ones without a college degree) will never work again.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therussmeister
Most of the time when people say they have hit rock bottom it means they don't have a real job with health insurance.

There was an expert interviewed on the local public radio station saying many unemployed people between the ages 25-55 (the ones without a college degree) will never work again.
That may be true...but it is also true that if you have hit "rock bottom"...the racetrack should not be the first thought on your mind...

It has been my experience that things are never so bad...that they can't get worse...
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:57 PM   #21
Ernie Dahlman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocala Mike
It was for this guy:

http://timelesswealth.net/articles/t...he_horses.html

I believe Mr. Dahlman is a member of this group, so maybe he'll weigh in on this.


Ocala Mike
It is true that my income has been derived from betting horses (standardbreds and then thoroughbreds). I quit college when I was 21 and have been betting horses uninterrupted since then (I'm 67). At 22 I handicapped standardbred races for the NY Post for about 6 weeks. My deal was I got paid $50 if I did well and $25 if I didn't. My prices were getting hurt so I quit and I've never been paid anything for my services since then. I did show a flat bet profit during this time and Ike Gellis of the Post forked over the $50 every week.

Ernie
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therussmeister
There was an expert interviewed on the local public radio station saying many unemployed people between the ages 25-55 (the ones without a college degree) will never work again.
and you believe that bullshit ? So a 25 yr old with no College Degree might never work again? Where does this shit come from ? My wife is hiring Waiter's and Waitress types who are pulling down 4-6 hundred in Cash every week, Read it again, I said "CASH" and during the holidays,, much more. She can't find enough good ones. She fires one or more every week for stupid shit like not showing up, coming to work drunk, etc etc. If you are 25, most should be in good health and if they have any brains (that is a real deal breaker there) and apply themselves they can work a similar job and go to school on the side. The ones who want it, do it.

She had a an employee quit a few weeks ago who made 80k a year. Left because he was not happy with the changes being made at the job. No job to go to etc....... He is friggin crazy!! Adio's MoFo,,,,, I hope you find something..........and let's pray they don't check references
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:51 PM   #23
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they say when people hit rock bottom alot of them will go to casinos and try and hit the big one
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansan
they say when people hit rock bottom alot of them will go to casinos and try and hit the big one
And they usually end up biting the big one...
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:06 AM   #25
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The 25 year old will work again, but 55 year old might not. A company I use to work for's VP told me that never hired anyone without a degree and they preferred young bright kids right out of college for even their lowest management people. They always promoted from within for their middle and upper management positions. I was inherited when the they took over the company I work for. I was safe because I was a top producer, but I watch as they got rid of all the other management people they inherited. I was also told off the record I was too old to be promoted. Everyone of the managers they let go had to take a non-management job. They were in their late 30s and 40s. They weren't bad managers, but they were not among the very top producers. Everyone of the people they hired to replace them produced less they did. A couple of times I was on the list for a higher up job, but I never got it and I know why. It is the way things were and if I didn't like it I could have Quit. But I wasn't going to quit without a new job (been there, done that, not doing it again). I looked around for year and then I got sick. There was no quitting then.
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Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:46 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman
It is true that my income has been derived from betting horses (standardbreds and then thoroughbreds). I quit college when I was 21 and have been betting horses uninterrupted since then (I'm 67). At 22 I handicapped standardbred races for the NY Post for about 6 weeks. My deal was I got paid $50 if I did well and $25 if I didn't. My prices were getting hurt so I quit and I've never been paid anything for my services since then. I did show a flat bet profit during this time and Ike Gellis of the Post forked over the $50 every week.

Ernie
Very nice to see your post on this thread Ernie. With your income coming from betting horses for so long is there one good piece of advice you would give those aspiring to do the same? Is it betting only winners, horizontal, vertical, self discipline or a complicated combination of everything ??????

The one person I have met making a living for a short time (between high paying jobs) was very disciplined but bet very big when he had an opinion. Sometimes just win, sometimes horizontal, sometimes vertical but seemed to be able to adapt the bet to the situation which makes sense. He seemed to be spending more time at the IRS window than anywhere else and that was a result of his betting style. Not a grinder but a swing for the fences when he had a good opinion and to me that's the way to make a living on the horses. I haven't tried it yet but after 25 years of screwing around with little bets I am coming to the conclusion that if you want to win big you have to bet big. (on fewer races of course)

The problem with taking big swings is that you need a big bankroll to start out and if you try to grind your way up it is a long road. IMO
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansan
they say when people hit rock bottom alot of them will go to casinos and try and hit the big one
The casino is the worst place to go. Always a house advantage. Trying to hit the big one is usually a recipe for disaster.

I am in a bit of a tight spot myself and am going to Belmont again this weekend. I'm taking my Mom for breakfast at Belmont. She keeps urging me to play. She thinks I'm good. I feel my problem is more in the wager construction than the handicapping. As far as discipline I have no trouble sitting out a race I don't like (another common downfall).

Twice in one week is unusual for me as I don't average once every 5 years. I will not be going for the "big one" however. I want to see how hard it is to grind out a profit after working hard for a little over a year. Learning what I could, and observing what I could, and reading what I could, and of course this forum. In addition to being around it as long as I can remember. I consistently have 3 of the 4 in superfectas and 2 out 3 in the triples. I do hit them but not enough. I hit exactas but the payoffs aren't always the best. I think I have found the key to my missing horse.

I had noticed the physicality and behavior of winners before as well as after the race during the past year. My father had told me that some people strictly handicap from the post parade but he didn't know much about it. That was around 30 years ago. The one thing I picked up on and have not found in the threads on physicality is the size of the horses in relation to the field. You can't tell that on a tv screen shot as there is nothing to compare it to until they are in the gate. Yes, you can compare it to the escort horse but who is to say how large that horse is. I am so intrigued and convinced by this that I am waiting for a copy of "Talking with Horses" and "The Body Language of the Racehorse" on DVD.

More than once I have played a horse that looked great on paper to find it was the runt of the field after they exit the gate. Smaller horses have to work harder to keep up with the bigger ones. You also can't tell muscle tone that good from a tv screen. Not like you can when your 10 feet from the horse. I also don't like being at the mercy of the producer calling the shots. And sometimes there's glare in the picture.

I didn't appreciate the difference until last week at the Belmont. I was starting in the paddock and walking through to catch the post parade. It was like night and day compared to simulcast

So I will put myself to the test. If it works, I'm going back.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:21 AM   #28
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Well Said

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaLover
Theoretically is not impossible for somebody to grind small amount out of the pools earning a modest living although very few have managed to do it and even fewer relied to it as their only source of income. Most people deceive themselves, adapting ultra conservative strategies which although they extend their presence in the game they fail to show profitability and eventually have to refund their limited bankrolls.

A more realistic approach for a serious bettor would be to operate based in a decently sized bankroll (well in the four digits) shooting for the big paydays with relatively large bets proportional to the total amount available .

My advice to a small bettor who wants to give himself the opportunity to hit it big, is to try to build a bankroll taking larger than optimal chances, betting aggressively while his total capital is still small thus his risk is by default minimal in absolute value. A key point here is not to use the betting bankroll to cover living expenses, giving it the chance to grow fast and uninterrupted. As it will increase, a Kelly-level bet sizing will be reached, limited only by the pool – overlay relationship which should be constantly used thereafter.

The sad reality though, is that very few of us have the talent, determination and consistency required to beat this game and exactly because of this difficulty, the game is actually beatable!
Swing For The Fences. I agree. That's what we have to start doing. Jim Quinn talked about that in one of his books. Let's see if we bet horses between 2 to 1 and 11 to 1. When our selection is 7 to 1 and up, we bet 2 times our regular amount. In my case it would be 160 dollars to win . The big scores are what all of us are waiting for anyway. Even us win players. The 5 to 2's. Just get our losses back. Many have said the same thing. 7 to 1 and up. Bet 2 times your regular play. We have a shot.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:22 AM   #29
Bettowin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shouldacoulda
The casino is the worst place to go. Always a house advantage. Trying to hit the big one is usually a recipe for disaster.

I am in a bit of a tight spot myself and am going to Belmont again this weekend. I'm taking my Mom for breakfast at Belmont. She keeps urging me to play. She thinks I'm good. I feel my problem is more in the wager construction than the handicapping. As far as discipline I have no trouble sitting out a race I don't like (another common downfall).

Twice in one week is unusual for me as I don't average once every 5 years. I will not be going for the "big one" however. I want to see how hard it is to grind out a profit after working hard for a little over a year. Learning what I could, and observing what I could, and reading what I could, and of course this forum. In addition to being around it as long as I can remember. I consistently have 3 of the 4 in superfectas and 2 out 3 in the triples. I do hit them but not enough. I hit exactas but the payoffs aren't always the best. I think I have found the key to my missing horse.

I had noticed the physicality and behavior of winners before as well as after the race during the past year. My father had told me that some people strictly handicap from the post parade but he didn't know much about it. That was around 30 years ago. The one thing I picked up on and have not found in the threads on physicality is the size of the horses in relation to the field. You can't tell that on a tv screen shot as there is nothing to compare it to until they are in the gate. Yes, you can compare it to the escort horse but who is to say how large that horse is. I am so intrigued and convinced by this that I am waiting for a copy of "Talking with Horses" and "The Body Language of the Racehorse" on DVD.

More than once I have played a horse that looked great on paper to find it was the runt of the field after they exit the gate. Smaller horses have to work harder to keep up with the bigger ones. You also can't tell muscle tone that good from a tv screen. Not like you can when your 10 feet from the horse. I also don't like being at the mercy of the producer calling the shots. And sometimes there's glare in the picture.

I didn't appreciate the difference until last week at the Belmont. I was starting in the paddock and walking through to catch the post parade. It was like night and day compared to simulcast

So I will put myself to the test. If it works, I'm going back.
Also read the book. Body Language of Horses by Ainslie and Ledbetter. Very simple easy to read book but it gets you thinking the right way. Small versus big horses depends on the distance and surface not to mention you should have the field handicapped and use the appearance to supplement what you have already done.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettowin
Also read the book. Body Language of Horses by Ainslie and Ledbetter. Very simple easy to read book but it gets you thinking the right way. Small versus big horses depends on the distance and surface not to mention you should have the field handicapped and use the appearance to supplement what you have already done.
That's exactly how I intend to approach it. I worked too hard to learn how to analyze a race to disregard it.
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