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View Poll Results: Which horse will be the 2019 American Champion Three-Year-Old Male Horse?
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Mr. Money
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11 |
11.46% |
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Maximum Security
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38 |
39.58% |
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War of Will
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4 |
4.17% |
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Code Of Honor
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31 |
32.29% |
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Tacitus
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3 |
3.13% |
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Sir Winston
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0 |
0% |
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Other
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9 |
9.38% |
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11-19-2019, 04:53 PM
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#196
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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Was kind of a weirdly run race for a Derby.
I thought "tentative" Tyler might have sent War of Will from the rail at the break, but he didn't and Saez was able to completely dictate terms...
Until his loss vs King For a Day and his subsequent win in the Haskell, I had never seen Maximum Security throw-down any kind of early pace. I didn't know if he was capable.
He's a good horse.
Probably would vote for Maximum Security, or Code of Honor for 3yo champ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
He got away with murder in the middle part of that race (pace wise) which is why the field was so tightly bunched.
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__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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11-19-2019, 05:01 PM
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#197
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
It was just the optics watching the race live, looked like he was intent on keeping War of Will pinned in behind, and once things started to open up, he looked like he was trying to block to me. I've been wrong before, but even at the time I didn't know who the rider was (I rarely do) so I didn't consider his past.
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When I saw the head-on (above) I thought it was obvious that it was intentional. If you watch, on the backstretch, Saez comes in towards the rail to shut WoW off there. Then when WoW goes outside, Saez moves out once BEFORE the foul to herd Wow. Then, he moves out again and commits the foul.
Finally, if you watch NBC (the second link), you will see that AFTER the foul, Saez realizes Code of Honor is coming up the rail and swerves BACK to the left to try and crowd him.
You put this all together and I'm sorry, this was completely intentional.
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11-19-2019, 05:09 PM
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#198
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Imagine had he run a straight line how much more he'd have won by!
Seriously, anyone who doesn't think that MS was the best horse on Derby day has something wrong. I don't consider Country House the deserving winner nor do I give him some vote for best 3yo due to having that big race on his record. This isn't rocket science.
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If you keep harping on with stuff like "I don't consider Country House the deserving winner" I have to repeat the question: Do you not understand how the rules work, or do you not care about them?
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11-19-2019, 05:15 PM
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#199
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Finally, if you watch NBC (the second link), you will see that AFTER the foul, Saez realizes Code of Honor is coming up the rail and swerves BACK to the left to try and crowd him.
You put this all together and I'm sorry, this was completely intentional.
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And after that herds War of Will some more until that one gives up trying to get by. It was the behavior of a pushy colt in a field of weanlings/yearlings who doesn't want anybody to get in front of him and tries to physically and psychologically intimidate any colt who threatens to do so.
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11-19-2019, 08:21 PM
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#200
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I already said he was the best horse, so why did you respond this way?
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I don’t know. I didn’t know why you were saying he deserved the DQ. I’m only saying our opinions on horses aren’t restricted to their win/loss record.
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11-19-2019, 08:23 PM
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#201
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceBored
If you keep harping on with stuff like "I don't consider Country House the deserving winner" I have to repeat the question: Do you not understand how the rules work, or do you not care about them?
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I don’t have to continue explaining the obvious. If you don’t get this concept, then I hope you don’t bet on horse racing.
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11-19-2019, 10:11 PM
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#202
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
It was just the optics watching the race live, looked like he was intent on keeping War of Will pinned in behind, and once things started to open up, he looked like he was trying to block to me. I've been wrong before, but even at the time I didn't know who the rider was (I rarely do) so I didn't consider his past.
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Wasn’t sure if you saw something I missed.
He definitely was all over the place around that turn.
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11-20-2019, 08:40 AM
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#203
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I don’t have to continue explaining the obvious. If you don’t get this concept, then I hope you don’t bet on horse racing.
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Yes, the obvious is that you don't understand the rules. If horse A puts horse B over the inside rail 30 yards before the finish line then horse C is declared the winner even if if it was twenty lengths behind the other two at the time and you don't think horse C is "deserving" enough to be the winner.
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11-20-2019, 08:41 AM
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#204
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 152
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The derby was stolen.
People will latch on to the “letter of law” mentality to justify a fraud winner.
The Stewards failed as the derby is a rough race and always had been and probably always will be when you keep loading 20 3 year olds up that can’t handle the distance.
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11-20-2019, 09:30 AM
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#205
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPHAR
The derby was stolen.
People will latch on to the “letter of law” mentality to justify a fraud winner.
The Stewards failed as the derby is a rough race and always had been and probably always will be when you keep loading 20 3 year olds up that can’t handle the distance.
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I guess the NHL should just stop calling roughing penalties and cops should stop writing speeding tickets then, right?
The rules of racing apply to the Derby like any other race.
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11-20-2019, 10:18 AM
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#206
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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Is Maximum Security really running in the Cigar Mile?
the 'probables' list for that race look too-good-to-be-true
potentially nice race
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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11-20-2019, 11:44 AM
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#207
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
Is Maximum Security really running in the Cigar Mile?
the 'probables' list for that race look too-good-to-be-true
potentially nice race
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For a race in late November, it's darned good.
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11-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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#208
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
For a race in late November, it's darned good.
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Early December.
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11-20-2019, 12:22 PM
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#209
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Early December.
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You are right. Which makes it all the more impressive.
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11-23-2019, 09:39 PM
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#210
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self medicated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 3,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I guess the NHL should just stop calling roughing penalties and cops should stop writing speeding tickets then, right?
The rules of racing apply to the Derby like any other race.
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Yeah well they do. Every hockey call is never made and cops give warnings all the time. Saying that was cut and dry is foolish. Calling it intentionally done is also foolish . Other Jockeys have already said that horse was spooked. Plus, even implying that was the 17 th best horse in that race is total BS. He was clearly best.
Furthermore, throw the race out , pretend he didn’t even enter. His resume for the year is better that all Of these other underachieving 3 yo with maybe The exception of COH. The reality is that other than COH none of the others come close. And that horse they did put up in the derby...... never ran again . This is why the internet gets me in trouble. People just make up crap without the facts or taking in the reality of the circumstances. What derbies have people been watching to pretend there’s never been fouls and rough trips.?
And it didn’t really matter. This horse beat the Travers winner, the BC Mile winner and he was heads and tails better than the derby second choice/almost co fave. It’s a joke people are making cases for anyone else. He actually destroyed COH in the Fla Derby. And he’s got the closest accomplishments.
Last edited by burnsy; 11-23-2019 at 09:42 PM.
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