Rick Dutrow - Time served is enough

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Denny

Thank you for all the contributions, especially the ones from inside the game.
I'm just a horseplayer and only know what goes on from the outside.

My take so far from the comments:

Horseracing is a crooked-ass game - which I've always known.

Horseplayers are a hard-assed bunch - more so than I knew.

[I'd like to hear more from people that really know. Especially what goes on at the highest levels. Have always suspected that the more money on the line, the more cheating that goes on.
They drilled Oscar back in the day too. Couldn't stand to have their blue-bloods beaten by claimers. (Think I'm happiest betting the lower-level races and will concentrate on them.)
But, now I'm going off topic.]

Carry on.

I am not really that hard-assed in this sense: I can see the case for leniency or to commute the punishment of a trainer who really seems to be reformed and could be a benefit to the game.

But I really resent these sorts of campaigns on behalf of rich and powerful people. There's a film regarding "Chappaquiddick" that is about to come out. Politically, I am an admirer of Ted Kennedy's politics, but I absolutely hate the strings that were pulled for him in a situation that, if it had happened to me or anyone on this board, would have resulted in some jail or even prison time.

What I don't like about Dutrow is he is obviously having his many friends and connections make a case for leniency that I know that a less connected person would never receive. If we are going to have some mercy, we should start by having it for the folks who aren't the upper crust of racing. Someone like Dutrow should be made an example and serve out his full sentence.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I am not really that hard-assed in this sense: I can see the case for leniency or to commute the punishment of a trainer who really seems to be reformed and could be a benefit to the game.

But I really resent these sorts of campaigns on behalf of rich and powerful people. There's a film regarding "Chappaquiddick" that is about to come out. Politically, I am an admirer of Ted Kennedy's politics, but I absolutely hate the strings that were pulled for him in a situation that, if it had happened to me or anyone on this board, would have resulted in some jail or even prison time.

What I don't like about Dutrow is he is obviously having his many friends and connections make a case for leniency that I know that a less connected person would never receive. If we are going to have some mercy, we should start by having it for the folks who aren't the upper crust of racing. Someone like Dutrow should be made an example and serve out his full sentence.

I'm not so sure Dutrow should be counted as among the elite and the rich and powerful...dude filed for personal bankruptcy not too long ago...

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/p...cy-protection/

[Michael]

Originally Posted by stuball

Put me down as wanting to let him come back but only as a bathroom attendant or a hot dog server -- I hate cheaters of any kind and it is a well established fact he cheated...The other trainers are looking out for themselves if he comes back it establishes a precedent that they can use if they are ever in that position...precedent is all inportant

Stuball

I'm in the same boat as Stuball. When I got serious about horse-racing there was several trainers that ALWAYS got mentioned as cheaters. Dutrow was one of them. Why do I care about a petition with signatures? I don't. Not one bit. In fact, how about they go after other cheaters.

[Denny]

I never thought of Dutrow as an "upper crust" trainer. More of a guy that worked his way up from a smaller circuit - Maryland to NY.

Who are the rich and famous owners he trained for?

Maybe I'm missing something? Dale Romans is like that too, a guy that worked his way up after working for his dad everywhere in Kentucky.

The point SLewis was making is that it is the highest class trainers that are getting away with probably far more than what Rick did.

They're the ones with the powerful owners behind them. We all know who they are.

----

I'll try to stay out of this again and let the rest of you share an opinion.

----

PS. It's not that I think Dutrow is totally innocent. It's more a question of fairness and not singling out one individual.

Totally agree about going after others - the ones covered with protection in particular.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I'm not so sure Dutrow should be counted as among the elite and the rich and powerful...dude filed for personal bankruptcy not too long ago...

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/p...cy-protection/

Lots of people from wealthy families file for bankruptcy

Dutrow is, in fact, aristocracy. His father was a major, high percentage trainer in Maryland and New York for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Dutrow_Sr.

All the bankruptcy proves is that he blew all the money he made.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Lots of people from wealthy families file for bankruptcy

Dutrow is, in fact, aristocracy. His father was a major, high percentage trainer in Maryland and New York for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Dutrow_Sr.

All the bankruptcy proves is that he blew all the money he made.

You're making him and his family out to be the second coming of the Whitneys....

He's no blue blood, nor apparently, is he all that well off...just countering some of the misperceptions put out in this thread...

Maybe he has a stash of money somewhere in the Caymans...

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You're making him and his family out to be the second coming of the Whitneys....

He's no blue blood, nor apparently, is he all that well off...just countering some of the misperceptions put out in this thread...

Maybe he has a stash of money somewhere in the Caymans...

He was reportedly living in a tack room in the late 80s/early 90s timeframe, not exactly a blue blood as you've correctly stated. I agreed with his ban, though.

[upthecreek]

Twitter

[chiguy]

I think a big part of his problem now is the smugness he displayed when he was on top. At least that is how he came across to me. I would have a lot more sympathy for someone who was more understated.

[slewis]

I’m never again going to get into a shoving match on here, so I’ll leave you with we agree to disagree.
But here are the facts:
Rick was not found guilty in a court of law. The courts just upheld the Kangaroo court that the Kentucky Racing Commission put forth. The same commission that’s in the pockets of the elite and powerful owners that Rick’s horses often beat, horses trained by their trainers who often did the same things and were using the same drugs (like Winstrol and Clembuterol) as Rick was.
The outcome of the legal case was predetermined, as per the prominent attorney who I know gets many trainers off of positives and suspensions.
The deal was, the way I see it, “get on your knees Rick and beg for forgiveness, and we’ll let you come back in 3-5 years. Fight a losing battle against our power and checkbooks, and your life is ruined.
In America, I’m not comfortable with anyone having to bow to the King(s).

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You're making him and his family out to be the second coming of the Whitneys....

He's no blue blood, nor apparently, is he all that well off...just countering some of the misperceptions put out in this thread...

Maybe he has a stash of money somewhere in the Caymans...

There have been a few real good ones in here so far.

1. "The breeding failure"




No comment.



2. and 3. " One need do no more than view Dutrow Jr's. career record as a trainer to gain a strong sense that he's no more than a man who found the good stuff and then rode the crest of his discovery, for a while, until the jig was up. "
"Consider that, sixteen years after Rick Dutrow Jr. started his first horse, he had but two career wins."
Soon after, he rocketed to 28% and never had a complete year below 22% winners again."



Roughly 20 starters over 16 years with no horses at all for 9 years in the middle and the other 7 years he had one 4,500 dollar claimer at a time off and on.



4. "But I really resent these sorts of campaigns on behalf of rich and powerful people. "


Pretty strong and I know it's still early but the leader in the clubhouse for me is:


5. " Dutrow is, in fact, aristocracy."

While this is pure fiction it sounds really decisive. Great job misleading everybody that does not know otherwise. Unfortunately, I do.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by stuball

Put me down as wanting to let him come back but only as a bathroom attendant or a hot dog server --

Stuball

Just don't let him come back as a bathroom attendant AND a hot dog server.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You're making him and his family out to be the second coming of the Whitneys....

He's no blue blood, nor apparently, is he all that well off...just countering some of the misperceptions put out in this thread...

Maybe he has a stash of money somewhere in the Caymans...

Aristocracy doesn't have to mean "old money". Dutrow started from a very advantaged place and that's why he has so many buddies running interference for him.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

There have been a few real good ones in here so far.

1. "The breeding failure"




No comment.



2. and 3. " One need do no more than view Dutrow Jr's. career record as a trainer to gain a strong sense that he's no more than a man who found the good stuff and then rode the crest of his discovery, for a while, until the jig was up. "
"Consider that, sixteen years after Rick Dutrow Jr. started his first horse, he had but two career wins."
Soon after, he rocketed to 28% and never had a complete year below 22% winners again."



Roughly 20 starters over 16 years with no horses at all for 9 years in the middle and the other 7 years he had one 4,500 dollar claimer at a time off and on.



4. "But I really resent these sorts of campaigns on behalf of rich and powerful people. "


Pretty strong and I know it's still early but the leader in the clubhouse for me is:


5. " Dutrow is, in fact, aristocracy."

While this is pure fiction it sounds really decisive. Great job misleading everybody that does not know otherwise. Unfortunately, I do.

If your father was one of the most successful in your field, you are, in fact, aristocracy in the sense that you are going to have a lot of powerful friends who try to protect you.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

If your father was one of the most successful in your field, you are, in fact, aristocracy in the sense that you are going to have a lot of powerful friends who try to protect you.

Uh, OK, when was the last time Dutrow Sr. even won at a 20% clip for an entire year???


LOL at “one of the best...”