The Brooklyn Cowboy banned me. Was I wrong?

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

ultimately it's his forum , his rules

this charity bs has gotten out of hand, and ingrained in our culture.

it's reached the point that there is social pressure against questioning or objecting to solicitation. It's politically incorrect to call bs. It's an exploitation of our social contract as society. Lot's of non-profit businessmen who don't have to worry about meeting their basic needs or wait for needed health care while their credit gets obliterated, not to mention hard work.

there is a place and a market for solicitation, and it is socially accepted, probably go so far as to say socially protected. It's here to stay.

I agree. Everywhere you go you are hit up for money: people hanging out on street corners at busy intersections holding their signs, always see beggars in front of the old churches in Europe (I always give them money). Off topic, but anyone who wants a job in the US can get one.

I donated money to Jose Flores.

[judd]

Originally Posted by whisperlunch

This Kevin Cox handicapper for mainly NYRA is awesome. I think he’s fantastic at handicaping. I’m being serious. I follow him on twitter and he’s pretty active on all topics even political opinions which is fine because I agree with him. However, he is also active in fundraising for what seems like many causes. It gets old but he’s so good at capping. Any way the tragic death of a top jockey last week Jose Flores at penn started him tweeting away for donations for a go fund me page. Also Paulick was promoting people to donate. I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money? I get that this is not a popular topic or is it popular to question a go fund me page but come on this just seems ridiculous to me that we need to donate money to everything. So I called him out and he got pissed and blocked me. Was I out of line?
What’s next a go fund me page for johnny v?
This topic will prolly get me banned here.

Anyway I apologize ahead of time
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on if what I did was so awful???

you might have gotten blocked cause of your photo

[proximity]

first off this is a horrible thing to happen to any jockey, let alone jose, who i always found to be a pretty nice guy. if nothing else, he always had eye contact and a nod of the head for the horseplayer on return trips to Grantville.

so if you want to donate something i wouldn't say it's the worst cause although i agree that financially he should have been well ahead of the average railbird haunting your local track, otb, and (ahem) pace handicapping website.

now whisperlunch? were you out of line?

i would say yes.

did your punishment fit your crime?

probably not because if this Brooklyn cowboy guy is as good of a handicapper as you say then he should have predicted this from a segment of society that (outside of the james bond types here on paceadvantage) isn't the most socially savvy to begin with.

at least you're able to acknowledge that maybe you made a mistake and with or without the Brooklyn cowboy as a "friend" that probably bodes well for you moving forward in life.

good luck!!

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Some times it is just better not to say a word. Like the night I got home late, after drinking, the wife was on the front porch with her hands on her hips and a unpleasant look on her face. I shut up, nodded my head, and never said another word about that night.

Exactly. Plus, after a tragedy like this just leave condolences and respect. One doesn't have to express a political or economic opinion, just opening the door to crap like this. Don't wanna donate, just shut up and move on. These are the reasons to stay off Twitter and Facebook, it gets bad enough around here, especially in the political board. You would think there's a civil war or something. The idiocy scale on the internet is off the charts. The internet also has reveled how inadequate our education system is. People can't even think for themselves. If someone dies and you have nothing nice to say........for Gods sake just shut up. Half the world is begging for something on here anyway.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I can attest that the BC looks exactly like his picture on Twitter, big cowboy hat and all

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Afleet

I agree. Everywhere you go you are hit up for money: people hanging out on street corners at busy intersections holding their signs, always see beggars in front of the old churches in Europe (I always give them money). Off topic, but anyone who wants a job in the US can get one.

I donated money to Jose Flores.

I'd rather give $5 to a bum to buy some booze than give money to some charity after I pay for groceries that the cashier is instructed to solicit each customer, of which $4.50 goes to the businessmen who thought it up, in the name of 'awareness' and 'expenses' and 'non-profit', and 50cents goes to the actual purpose.

Although, I do get pissed if someone approaches me aggressively or starts squeegeeing my window without my go-ahead. I'm not begging people, and I'm trying to fit in with society, but I've lived a harder life than most of the beggars.

I don't have any specific problem with the Jose Flores charity (assuming the money goes to the family). I don't know how it was presented, or what exactly the thread-starter said or did.

The issue I have is the exploitation of the spirit of charity. The abuse of our 'social contract'.

Our 'social contract' is that we are supposed to help out the less fortunate and the sick, and the elderly.

I know... if you have a pessimistic view of society and business, that everything is exploitation. I get that if it makes the donator feel better, than it is in fact offering a value or a service in exchange for the money. An argument could be made that it's no different from many other transactions. I know I should just go with the flow.

It's become a politically correct thing, where if I go to the grocery store and I have $7 to last me until April 3rd and I buy a few bananas and an off-brand packet of chili spice, and the cashier says "Shall I add a donation of $1 to our Children's Charity?" I should be able to say "Go to hell." without looking like a dick. There's a social pressure against speaking up about solicitation. It's become a huge industry and people have a herd mentality and a naive trust in the media and in the marketing of these charities. It's not supposed to be a source of passive income for wealthy corporations. It's supposed to go to the advertised cause. We as citizens are supposed to be making informed decisions. The charities that push the definitions 'charity' to the limit for their own passive income stream in a public, social solicitation are as bad if not worse as the asshole who jumps on my windshield at the red-light with his squeegee and pressures me for money.

[whisperlunch]

Love the replies thanks. I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policy
I actually met the BC at gulfstream few weeks back and he was very friendly. Looking back I just was in a bad mood and replied without thinking. My bad.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by whisperlunch

I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policy

Doing it again? You obviously can't get enough.

[cj]

Originally Posted by whisperlunch

Love the replies thanks. I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policy
I actually met the BC at gulfstream few weeks back and he was very friendly. Looking back I just was in a bad mood and replied without thinking. My bad.

I think if you really dig into it you'll find those earnings don't bring home as much as you think. Agent, valet, insurance (very high), etc.

[whisperlunch]

Pace
What I meant was I should have just stated on twitter my opinion without attacking his opinion on his tweet. Does that make sense. Look we these forums and twitter are for debating and some times it gets really out of hand.

If I came on this site promoting cause after cause asking for money and the causes were good causes would that be allowed? No. But let’s say I started a donation topic and you disagreed with it do you not have a right to say so? Yes

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

I think if you really dig into it you'll find those earnings don't bring home as much as you think. Agent, valet, insurance (very high), etc.

Its much less than 10% of earnings.

its 5% of all non winning purses, 10% of winners.

30% or so for the agent.

money for the valet

money for insurance

money for pensions if your into that kind of thing, riders dont ride forever



the very best riders who ride for a lot of money do pretty good, the rest, not so much.

[proximity]

don't most tracks have mount fees which would often be significantly greater than 10% of the horse earnings?

[cj]

Originally Posted by proximity

don't most tracks have mount fees which would often be significantly greater than 10% of the horse earnings?

Here is an example of a mount fee:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-com...-losing-mounts

I don't think you get both, only if you don't get a share of the purse do you get the mount fee.

Here were his stats for 2017. What do people think he cleared on the year?

2017 429 49 52 44 $1,720,288

I don't know the answer. Would like to hear some educated guesses.

[whisperlunch]

I thought I read where he had over 30,000 mounts, also I think each state is different on jock fees. If you hit the board you get % if worse u get jock fee. Amounts are different.

[cj]

Originally Posted by whisperlunch

I thought I read where he had over 30,000 mounts

Here is his stat page from Equibase, not quite 30,000.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...Type=J&eID=637

Looks like he was in his 32nd year of riding.