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Old 05-02-2023, 12:39 PM   #31
dilanesp
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You might want to fact check that, or at least acknowledge the caveats and stipulations needed to arrive at that conclusion.
No, the scholarship on this is incredibly clear.

Sports owners pay a lot of money to generate hack studies that claim a benefit, of course, just like tobacco companies sponsored studies showing smoking wasn't dangerous. These are the studies that are used to justify bilking the taxpayers for subsidies which go into the pockets of the rich people who put on sports events.

But in actual academia, it is undisputed that only in very special situations (usually involving small towns) does the benefit outweigh what you would get if you spent the money and used the land for other things.
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Old 05-02-2023, 02:24 PM   #32
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I was curious and looked at the prices for the weekend....yeah, definitely not for the horseplayer that goes to the track most weekends. I remember paying $20 for GA back in 2008 at Santa Anita.They are obviously going for a more wealthy clientele these days for the Breeders Cup and most of the serious horseplayers will just watch on their TV and bet over the phone or internet that weekend.
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Old 05-02-2023, 02:28 PM   #33
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I went twice at Santa Anita, 2009 and 2012.

Plenty of ultra-fans. Mostly not what you described, certainly no more than Derby.

The biggest difference was the way 2012 was ticketed and how the facility was arranged was way different than in 2009 and not for the better. 2012 felt like a bald-faced money suck.

The Derby to me was like two different crowds, the serious fans were in the grandstand and clubhouse. The infield was basically a large version of drunk and stupid. I have been in the infield at too many Nascar events to count. I saw more whacked out behavior at the Derby than everywhere else combined. A lot of things I never saw before. I think the topper was a young couple looking just married, wedding dress, tux and all passed out in a mud puddle from ice melt from the beer stand.
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Old 05-02-2023, 02:31 PM   #34
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The Derby to me was like two different crowds, the serious fans were in the grandstand and clubhouse. The infield was basically a large version of drunk and stupid. I have been in the infield at too many Nascar events to count. I saw more whacked out behavior at the Derby than everywhere else combined. A lot of things I never saw before. I think the topper was a young couple looking just married, wedding dress, tux and all passed out in a mud puddle from ice melt from the beer stand.
I've never seen that sort of infield antics at SA BCs.
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Old 05-02-2023, 02:44 PM   #35
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Sports teams know their customers are addicted to sports, so they will charge absolute top $ knowing their customers will pay it. Same concept here, top event, people will just pay it.


I used to be a huge sports fan back in the day, other than tennis and horse racing, I haven't watched a professional sporting event in about 7 years. The price of tickets, etc skyrocketed over the years and honestly I don't miss it at all.

Nascar really sucks compared to back in the day. The tickets haven't went up
much more than inflation, but your money buys you one race on cup day and at the most two the preceding day, but you only get two if they put the Xfinity race and the trucks on the same day. Back when I was going to Riverside back in the 70's and 80's they had up to 6 races a day on Sunday.
The $2 hot dog and beer is like $15. I am sure that went up more than inflation.
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Old 05-02-2023, 02:59 PM   #36
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The Derby to me was like two different crowds, the serious fans were in the grandstand and clubhouse. The infield was basically a large version of drunk and stupid. I have been in the infield at too many Nascar events to count. I saw more whacked out behavior at the Derby than everywhere else combined. A lot of things I never saw before. I think the topper was a young couple looking just married, wedding dress, tux and all passed out in a mud puddle from ice melt from the beer stand.
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I've never seen that sort of infield antics at SA BCs.

So you have never seen someone run across the roofs of the porta potty row while people threw beer at them? You haven't lived. You would encounter the same thing to an extent at Nascar events in the infield. It could be the Breeder's Cup prices that crowd out. There are people that like to be part of a large crowd of fellow drunken idiots that have no interest in the event they are attending.
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Old 05-02-2023, 03:35 PM   #37
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I have put a limit of $25 on what I pay for parking. Sometimes I should have paid for parking instead of doing the long walk or taking the bus.I'll probably never go to many major events because of this.
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Old 05-02-2023, 03:39 PM   #38
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So you have never seen someone run across the roofs of the porta potty row while people threw beer at them? You haven't lived. You would encounter the same thing to an extent at Nascar events in the infield. It could be the Breeder's Cup prices that crowd out. There are people that like to be part of a large crowd of fellow drunken idiots that have no interest in the event they are attending.
I was just saying I've never seen it at the BCs I went to at Santa Anita.

But regardless, those antics don't appeal to me at any entertainment/sports event.
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Old 05-02-2023, 04:57 PM   #39
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I was just saying I've never seen it at the BCs I went to at Santa Anita.

But regardless, those antics don't appeal to me at any entertainment/sports event.
It's a nice distraction when my handicapping is lousy
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Old 05-02-2023, 05:20 PM   #40
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No, the scholarship on this is incredibly clear.

Sports owners pay a lot of money to generate hack studies that claim a benefit, of course, just like tobacco companies sponsored studies showing smoking wasn't dangerous. These are the studies that are used to justify bilking the taxpayers for subsidies which go into the pockets of the rich people who put on sports events.

But in actual academia, it is undisputed that only in very special situations (usually involving small towns) does the benefit outweigh what you would get if you spent the money and used the land for other things.
I guess in the world of hyperbole and abstraction, you have a point. What taxpayer subsidies does the Preakness currently get and how do they, if existent, outweigh the benefits?

Real numbers, not abstraction, please
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Old 05-02-2023, 08:51 PM   #41
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I guess in the world of hyperbole and abstraction, you have a point. What taxpayer subsidies does the Preakness currently get and how do they, if existent, outweigh the benefits?

Real numbers, not abstraction, please
The Preakness historically only got the implicit subsidy of the exclusive gambling franchise (which back in the day was worth a lot!). But going forward the deal that Maryland came up with to keep the Preakness will cost taxpayers just under $400 billion in direct costs and several trillion dollars in opportunity costs.

And that last point is key. It's not enough to say "the sports event brings in revenue". You have to compare it to other potential developments, from manufacturing facilities to college campuses to business parks to housing developments, and show that giving the money to the sports owner will produce HIGHER revenues than the other potential uses of the land.

And that's just never true outside stuff like the Bristol Motor Speedway where you have a small city and an enormous revenue generator. It's literally impossible that the highest possible amount of money Baltimore can make is by continuing to host a race one day a year.
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Old 05-02-2023, 10:46 PM   #42
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I was just saying I've never seen it at the BCs I went to at Santa Anita.

But regardless, those antics don't appeal to me at any entertainment/sports event.

I avoid the infields these days at Nascar events. I had a friend of a friend who had a motor home he parked in the infield, we would meet him there.
A motor home roof is a good seat and a hot dog and beer for $2 is a lot better than $15.
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Old 05-03-2023, 06:12 PM   #43
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Bet your bottom dollar they will have guards watching people parking at the Santa Anita Mall between those two days. Once those patrons make that long walk down that road that leads to the track/back of the mall, there will be a tow truck heading over to tow their vehicle. I know they used to put out signs for 'no racetrack parking' at the lot facing Baldwin Avenue, but I don't know if they ever really enforced that rule from then to present day.

It's sad that the BC has become a giant money grab with so many restrictions. I'm glad the last BC I attended, which was in 2009, was at least catered to everyone minus all the extortion and nauseating prestige. For an industry that is grasping straws trying to survive, the last thing you would think they would do is shutter most people out that have supported the industry over the years versus the one-time attendee. I didn't even pay that anywhere near that price for parking when I went to see Elton John in-concert last year.
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Old 05-03-2023, 06:18 PM   #44
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Bet your bottom dollar they will have guards watching people parking at the Santa Anita Mall between those two days. Once those patrons make that long walk down that road that leads to the track/back of the mall, there will be a tow truck heading over to tow their vehicle. I know they used to put out signs for 'no racetrack parking' at the lot facing Baldwin Avenue, but I don't know if they ever really enforced that rule from then to present day.

It's sad that the BC has become a giant money grab with so many restrictions. I'm glad the last BC I attended, which was in 2009, was at least catered to everyone minus all the extortion and nauseating prestige. For an industry that is grasping straws trying to survive, the last thing you would think they would do is shutter most people out that have supported the industry over the years versus the one-time attendee. I didn't even pay that anywhere near that price for parking when I went to see Elton John in-concert last year.



Sounds like Santa Anita will be locked tighter than the US Mexico border!
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Old 05-03-2023, 11:37 PM   #45
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Bet your bottom dollar they will have guards watching people parking at the Santa Anita Mall between those two days. Once those patrons make that long walk down that road that leads to the track/back of the mall, there will be a tow truck heading over to tow their vehicle. I know they used to put out signs for 'no racetrack parking' at the lot facing Baldwin Avenue, but I don't know if they ever really enforced that rule from then to present day.

It's sad that the BC has become a giant money grab with so many restrictions. I'm glad the last BC I attended, which was in 2009, was at least catered to everyone minus all the extortion and nauseating prestige. For an industry that is grasping straws trying to survive, the last thing you would think they would do is shutter most people out that have supported the industry over the years versus the one-time attendee. I didn't even pay that anywhere near that price for parking when I went to see Elton John in-concert last year.
It's probably possible to find some street parking, but it's going to be a long way from the track and you'd probably need to get there very early to get it.

I agree it's unlikely they are going to let you park at the mall for free and go to the track.
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