Lower Minimums Destroy Handle; Magna 5

[samyn on the green]

Here is a good example of lower minimums destroying handle.

This year, the first Magna 5 was on January 24 with handle of only $431,780. This was the second lowest in Magna 5 history, from 50 runnings. On January 31, a new low was set when the Magna 5 only handled $402,677 -- the lowest ever -- until last week when a new low was set as the Magna 5 dipped below $400K for the first time; $399,437.

In 2007, the 10 runnings of the Magna 5 averaged $589,411 with one carryover week. In 2008, the nine runnings of the Magna 5 averaged $535,019 with one carryover week. So far this year, the three runnings of the Magna 5 averaged $415,608, which is a 22.32 percent decline from the 2008 averages and a 29.49 percent from 2007. Considering that total handle nationwide in the month of January was only down 2 percent and that Gulfstream, which usually hosts at least two of the races, has shown increases in business this year, it would make sense that these declines are due to the lowering of the $2 bet minimum to $1.

[rjorio]

It cannot be argued that PK6 carryovers do not guarantee dramatic pool increases, but as to the Magna PK5 , race selection and placement may be responsible for pool decline. There is no reason not to offer a fifty cent minimum on a non carryover bet like the PK4.

[Bubba X]

Originally Posted by rjorio

It cannot be argued that PK6 carryovers do not guarantee dramatic pool increases, but as to the Magna PK5 , race selection and placement may be responsible for pool decline. There is no reason not to offer a fifty cent minimum on a non carryover bet like the PK4.

I think maybe there is.

Say the base wager on a p-4 is $1 with no $.50 bet available.. No one has 4 of 4. So, they pay off on 3 of 4. The pool (less takeout, of course) gets paid.

Now, say the base wager is $1 with $.50 available. There are no $1 tickets with 4 of 4. There is one $.50 ticket with 4 of 4. The $.50 ticket gets paid 1/2 of the net pool.

What happens to the other 1/2 of the pool?

[samyn on the green]

Seriously if a 50 cent ticket gets the whole pool, he gets the whole pool. The payout would read $200,000 for a $1 pick4 and the 50 cent ticket holder would collect $100,000 in the $100,000(minus takeout) pool.

Originally Posted by Bubba X

I think maybe there is.

Say the base wager on a p-4 is $1 with no $.50 bet available.. No one has 4 of 4. So, they pay off on 3 of 4. The pool (less takeout, of course) gets paid.

Now, say the base wager is $1 with $.50 available. There are no $1 tickets with 4 of 4. There is one $.50 ticket with 4 of 4. The $.50 ticket gets paid 1/2 of the net pool.

What happens to the other 1/2 of the pool?

[rjorio]

The entire pool minus takeout is always paid out .Ther is no PK4 carryover.

[Bubba X]

Originally Posted by samyn on the green

Seriously if a 50 cent ticket gets the whole pool, he gets the whole pool. The payout would read $200,000 for a $1 pick4 and the 50 cent ticket holder would collect $100,000 in the $100,000(minus takeout) pool.

Are you certain of that?

Does the same hold true on a $.10 superfecta?

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by Bubba X

Are you certain of that?

Does the same hold true on a $.10 superfecta?

Yes, and yes.

[Bubba X]

ok, thanks and thanks.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Bubba X

I think maybe there is.

Say the base wager on a p-4 is $1 with no $.50 bet available.. No one has 4 of 4. So, they pay off on 3 of 4. The pool (less takeout, of course) gets paid.

Now, say the base wager is $1 with $.50 available. There are no $1 tickets with 4 of 4. There is one $.50 ticket with 4 of 4. The $.50 ticket gets paid 1/2 of the net pool.

What happens to the other 1/2 of the pool?

Wow! You honestly thought half the pool didn't get paid?

[Bubba X]

Originally Posted by cj

Wow! You honestly thought half the pool didn't get paid?

Yes, honestly. I've never bet a superfecta or a p-3 or p-4 in my life. Glad to wow you.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I'm thinking the 15-20% drop in handle might reflect the overall drop in handle nationwide, more than the change in the minimum bet size.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Steve 'StatMan'

I'm thinking the 15-20% drop in handle might reflect the overall drop in handle nationwide, more than the change in the minimum bet size.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Also, I assume it is a little tougher for some people to get a bet down on Magna tracks this year.

[point given]

Originally Posted by rjorio

The entire pool minus takeout is always paid out .Ther is no PK4 carryover.

Except in New jersey where there is a carryover to the next p4.

[turfnsport]

I'm pretty sure the only possible explanation for the Magna 5 handle to be off would be because of weather and the economy.

Any track exec will tell you Mother Nature and the Stimulus Plan are our only hope to turn this ship around.

[macguy]

Originally Posted by Bubba X

Are you certain of that?

Does the same hold true on a $.10 superfecta?

That's why you will sometimes see the payouts paying more than the total pool.