NYS Gaming Commission drops the hammer on Linda Rice. Good job

[BarchCapper]

Though she was gaining an unfair advantage, what Linda Rice did bothers me a little less from a bettor's perspective than something like the Baffert situation(s). Once the entries were finalized, I had access to all the relevant information I needed to handicap the races she entered.

As a former owner, what she did bothers me to a greater extent.

[JustRalph]

What she did was similar to racketeering using mobster style tactics, at least I draw that from what I read. Maybe that’s a stretch but when you are paying for info, and you have the cash over smaller outfits you are doing something that might be criminal in nature. Depending on NY State laws

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by BarchCapper

Though she was gaining an unfair advantage, what Linda Rice did bothers me a little less from a bettor's perspective than something like the Baffert situation(s). Once the entries were finalized, I had access to all the relevant information I needed to handicap the races she entered.

As a former owner, what she did bothers me to a greater extent.

Exactly.

This is more about owners and trainers.

My point is how do you give someone 3 years for this when we have guys all over the industry with multiple drug positives getting a slap on the wrist?

Drugs impact everyone, including the horse.

IMO, either make the much more serious drug penalties much harsher or fine her and give her a short suspension in line with the typical industry punishments.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Exactly.

This is more about owners and trainers.

My point is how do you give someone 3 years for this when we have guys all over the industry with multiple drug positives getting a slap on the wrist?

Drugs impact everyone, including the horse.

IMO, either make the much more serious drug penalties much harsher or fine her and give her a short suspension in line with the typical industry punishments.

And that’s a horse of a different color. But a great question

[acorn54]

all in all another reminder you can't take this gambling sport seriously.

[Cholly]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

My point is how do you give someone 3 years for this when we have guys all over the industry with multiple drug positives getting a slap on the wrist?

The difference here is her case was heard and her penalty determined by the New York Gaming Commission, not NYRA or some other horserace-industry group. What penalty do you think would be given by the Nevada Gaming Control Board to any employee or vendor who paid for inside information that might affect the outcome of a gambling event?

Gaming commissions understand that gambling businesses succeed best when the public perception is that the games are (mostly) on the up and up. And that perception is maintained by doling out penalties that totally scorch the ass of even the slightest transgressors, effectively discouraging others from messing in the nest. For some reason, that concept has never settled in with those who control the horserace industry.

The irony here is that Ms. Rice was a very publicly vocal proponent of marrying the horse race industry to the casino industry. Since the casino industry in New York has now become a huge business, the NY Gaming Commission is acting like it also means business.

[o_crunk]

I've always been interested in this case over the years. Curiously, Linda Rice is also one of the most active *owners* at the claim box at NYRA tracks. She's spent $4.55M at the claim box as an owner since 2010 at NYRA tracks, while only seeing her owned stock get claimed for $413K. I've often wondered about the intersection of this case with these facts. As far as I can tell, this never came up during the hearings. While it's hard to discern what the gambling edge is here, it's a lot easier to discern the advantage to the buying and selling of horses.

Even if there was nothing illegal going on this whole episode stinks to high heaven. It's long past time to blow up the entire racing office process. Less "friends of racing" or "we know him/her" or "my buddy/brother/sister can do that job" and more just old fashioned dictatorships when it comes to hustling races.

The idea that trainers were having a say - any say - in what races go and what races don't really has to end. It seems way too cozy to me. I think the punishment fits the crime in this case and many others involved didn't get the due process that Rice did, they just lost their jobs on the first day it was found out.

I also have a feeling that the public details and hearings surrounding this case only scratched the surface of some of the core issues surrounding the racing office and their relationships. In a way, that needs some more scrutiny than the trainers who were taking advantage of the weaknesses in the racing office.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Cholly

The difference here is her case was heard and her penalty determined by the New York Gaming Commission, not NYRA or some other horserace-industry group. What penalty do you think would be given by the Nevada Gaming Control Board to any employee or vendor who paid for inside information that might affect the outcome of a gambling event?

I mentioned earlier in the thread that it was not NYRA, but we still need some consistency and some sensible pecking order in the punishments so they fit the crime no matter who is dishing it out.

I am part of a small ownership group. Let me explain how it works for us.

We always know well in advance which race we are pointing to from the condition book.

We know if the races for that class, distance, surface have been filling or drawing overflow fields (meaning may we not get in) based on prior races and our efforts to enter those races.

We know all the horses that have been running for that condition recently and those that won recently and are likely to move up.

We have the PPs and speed figures for all the relevant horses.

We never pass a race because we are afraid of some other horse. If we did that, we'd often have to wait a 2-3 weeks until another race with those conditions was even available. And for all we know we may run into a tougher or larger field.

Plus, trainers are communicating with racing secretaries and have some idea if a race is going to fill, overflow, or needs an entry just to go even if they don't have specifics.

Any advantage she gained in knowing the exact entries was unfair and imo should be punished, but it was a small edge and had no impact on gamblers.

Compare that to a guy that's drugging horses, beating us regularly, potentially doing harm to the horses, and screwing up all the gamblers that have no knowledge of it.

To me, it's not even close as to which is the worse problem. If Linda Rice has to go down for 3 years for what she did (maybe that is appropriate but it doesn't feel that way to me??), we better start banning all the druggies a lot sooner and for life.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Exactly.

This is more about owners and trainers.

My point is how do you give someone 3 years for this when we have guys all over the industry with multiple drug positives getting a slap on the wrist?

Drugs impact everyone, including the horse.

IMO, either make the much more serious drug penalties much harsher or fine her and give her a short suspension in line with the typical industry punishments.

Maybe this will come off as harsh, but I don't care if they give her 20 years. This goes for Baffert too, and even for Dutrow previously. There is no trainer or group of trainers that the sport won't do just fine without. If somebody gets caught breaking the rules to the extent they are getting serious suspensions, the game doesn't need them.

I absolutely hope drug cheats get similar or worse suspensions. But I'm not going to shed any tears over people getting severly punished for other things as well.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by cj

Maybe this will come off as harsh, but I don't care if they give her 20 years. This goes for Baffert too, and even for Dutrow previously. There is no trainer or group of trainers that the sport won't do just fine without. If somebody gets caught breaking the rules to the extent they are getting serious suspensions, the game doesn't need them.

I absolutely hope drug cheats get similar or worse suspensions. But I'm not going to shed any tears over people getting severly punished for other things as well.

Absolutely agree, cj. It sure seemed like the sport...and business...was doing better before all these "people" showed up. That is why I say this.

[classhandicapper]

Even if there was nothing illegal going on this whole episode stinks to high heaven. It's long past time to blow up the entire racing office process. Less "friends of racing" or "we know him/her" or "my buddy/brother/sister can do that job" and more just old fashioned dictatorships when it comes to hustling races.

The idea that trainers were having a say - any say - in what races go and what races don't really has to end. It seems way too cozy to me.

I'm not a racing secretary and I'm not in position to talk to one, but based on my limited experience that may be easier said than done.

IMO, hustling is not just an effort by the track to fill a race. It's an effort to help the owners that have a horse that's ready to run and just needs an appropriate race to fill. There's a mutual benefit. Without that effort to fill certain races, some horses that are ready to run would be stuck in the barn, forced to ship out, or run in bad spots.

The thing is, if someone is hustling one of your horses into a spot to help fill a race, you at least want it to be a spot where you have some shot. No one can afford to totally waste races. If you get hustled into a few impossible spots along the way, the natural question going forward is going to be "how many horses are running and who is in the race" otherwise I can't enter or I'm going to scratch.

I'm not sure what the remedy is when there are shortages of certain categories of horses and the races aren't filling.

[green80]

Originally Posted by davew

Is it a secret what horses are entered for races? I thought anyone licensed could go to the racing secretary and see the current entries, or is that only some states?

you can't see the horse's names, just the number or horses that are entered for a particular race

[dilanesp]

And she's gone....

https://www.drf.com/news/rice-gets-l...ing-commission

[CheckMark]

Sorry about the duplicate thread guys

PA thank you for deleting my thread

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't delete it