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Old 02-20-2020, 07:01 PM   #1
big frank
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Method or System that predicts final odds

Does anyone know of any reliable method of predicting odds that horses will be.....not predicting winners or an odds line or valueline..................But how the public will bet the race ! Thanks
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #2
Prof.Factor
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How many minutes before post? 15-minutes? 30-minutes? 2-hours?
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Old 02-20-2020, 10:18 PM   #3
green80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big frank View Post
Does anyone know of any reliable method of predicting odds that horses will be.....not predicting winners or an odds line or valueline..................But how the public will bet the race ! Thanks



see some of mmmjjj 's posts
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:09 AM   #4
JerryBoyle
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I promised some analysis on the late odds changes a while back, but I haven't followed through. Some projects came up and I've also found some things that may have value, so giving them away isn't best for me.

A couple thoughts from what I've found though:

- If you can, focus on the last few minutes. As most are aware, the money that flows in later is smarter, and the later it flows in the smarter it is.

- I looked at prices 90 seconds to close, 30 seconds to close, at close (when betting is closed), and the final price. The largest jump in efficieny ("smartest") is going from close to final price. This means even if you could wait until the very last possible second, you won't know the final price, and there will still likely be a big change in odds compared to the last price you're able to see

- A simple linear regression of the market win estimate, the market exacta win estimate, and the market daily double win estimate from previous race will get you about 1/3 of the way to predicting the final estimate very accurately. Start adding other factors like morning line and your own handicapping info and you can do better. Change the model specification (i.e. try things other than linear regression) and you can do better still.

- Give consideration to the numeric space you're working in. Do you want to predict final payoff, final probability, etc? Should that include takeout or not? If final probability, do the probabilities need to be proper i.e. do they need to sum to 1 and be betwen 0 and 1? These may sound like silly things but once I started down the path they actually inform a lot of modeling decisions.

I know that doesn't help if you're not building a database of price changes and have the ability to work w/ that data either in excel or some other language. AmWager offers what they call TRU Odds, which I believe is sort of what you're after and what I describe in the 3rd bullet. Not sure exactly how they do it, but I know they combine prices from the different pools to come up with a "better" price.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:41 AM   #5
Gorrex
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AmWager's TRU odds is a weighted aggregate of all available pool data.

We use current race WIN, EX, DBL. Prior race DBL matrix and prior race PK3,PK4 willpays. If we had matrix data I could use other pools but the tote's dont calculate or send that.


Current weights are:
Past double: 4x
Past PK3: 0.5x
Past PK4: 0.1x
Current WIN, EX, DBL: 1.5x

Generally they do not predict the actual final odds but very very much do predict directional. For example if current odds is 2.5 and TRU odds shows 10 then it will drift up. As you get closer to post TRU odds becomes closer and closer to the actual. It never fully matches but on efficient pools its gets very close.

You can definitely spots large overlays or underlays. Which of course are fairly rare in todays markets.

We are working on a method to shift the weights based on pool/race information but hitting some snags and that will likely take a while. Specifically I would like to ramp up the past Willpay contribution BUT when long shots hit the first couple of races there is to much lost data to value it highly. Also number of horses in a past race can effect the efficiency of using even the past double pool. Same with using current double and the number of runners in the next race.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:31 AM   #6
acorn54
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from what i've seen the bris prime power number ranks the horses pretty effectively in how the PUBLIC at large will bet after the betting windows are closed.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:03 PM   #7
big frank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof.Factor View Post
How many minutes before post? 15-minutes? 30-minutes? 2-hours?
actually hours before would be ideal....don't know how accurate a method would be...........
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