Obamacare Rocks! (aka Keep Flushing That Toilet!)

[davew]

Originally Posted by green80

The term "covered" is just for stats. These people with the high 3-4-5000 deductables are in effect not really covered by insurance. How many of these people can really pay a $5000 deductable.

It does cover catastrophic accidents/injuries in that a $50K bill will set them back but probably prevent or delay a bankruptcy - if that is a good thing. Once again it helps hospitals and insurance industry at the cost to everyone.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I can tell you I had the choice of different plans, including Kaiser (a managed care consortium where the doctors are salaried and only work for Kaiser), the "high deductible" plan, and the "low deductible" plan. If I remember, the total out of pocket for premiums and deductibles was around $15K for either deductible if you had to lay out the maximum, although if you didn't need much doctoring the high deductible was quite a bit less expensive for premiums. So if you knew you were going to have surgeries or procedures, the low deductible plan was probably better. If you just had normal stuff, the high deductible plan was better. Back when I was covered by my employer with what might have been a "Cadillac" plan and I had back surgery it was a huge savings. Friends that have Kaiser are generally happy with it, and it is a fair price. Kaiser is able to do what others haven't - create a single electronic medical record that every doctor accesses. They have a lot of efficiencies that other hospitals and doctors don't.

Without getting into Obamacare, the insurance companies dropping people for pre-existing conditions was total bullshit and that needed to be fixed. I can't imagine why you would need 2,200 pages to do that, but for everyone who is going to repeal Obamacare on their first day in office, I hope they don't mean that requirement.

Everybody I know who is paying for their own insurance and isn't Medicare eligible is laying out in the $15K range. I know when I left my job and did the Cobra thing for a while, I was laying out $13K a year, so my insurance hasn't really gone up a big amount. I'm just happy I knowing if I get really ill I'll be able to get great care and I won't go broke in the process. In America, nobody should have to go bankrupt because of the cost for medical care and nobody should have to die just because they can't afford medical care. How you do that certainly has multiple options.

[davew]

That is the crux of the issue. People who have chronic disease and know their costs are going to be high, want low deductible and inexpensive insurance. People who do not like doctors or hospitals want high deductible and low premium.

In the past, people without insurance, went to the emergency room and expected the best, because they had no intention of paying ever.

So 0bamacare was supposed to give insurance to broke people and everyone would win - a plus / plus, except the money to pay for all of this does not grow on trees.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

the insurance companies dropping people for pre-existing conditions was total bullshit and that needed to be fixed.

They were not dropping people for pre-existing conditions. They were not covering a condition you already had if you signed up for a new policy. Just like Geico doesn't cover pre-existing damage on your car if you switch to them.

Most states had high-risk pools that covered pre-existing conditions. ObamaCare could have done the same, but liberals though it was "unfair" to treat such people differently. So other policy holders have to subsidize them now.

[Clocker]

Last one out please turn out the lights.

The nation’s largest insurer is ending its ObamaCare plans in two states several months after the company predicted nearly $1 billion in losses from participating in the marketplaces.

UnitedHealth Group plans to exit the exchanges in Georgia and Arkansas, both states confirmed to The Hill on Friday.

...

CEO Stephen Hemsley said in November that the company had lowered its revenue forecasts for the ObamaCare plans and was already pulling back on marketing for next year.

He hinted the company could withdraw from the ObamaCare marketplace completely within two years, a move that sent shockwaves across the healthcare and insurance sectors.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/275660-unitedhealth-to-exit-obamacare-exchanges-in-two-states-report

[delayjf]

In America, nobody should have to go bankrupt because of the cost for medical care and nobody should have to die just because they can't afford medical care. How you do that certainly has multiple options.

I question the notion that Americans need to be shielded from having to file for bankruptcy? If the issue is your life or death, opt for the care, file for bankruptcy and move on. Perhaps bankruptcy laws should be modified to better account for bankruptcy due to a medical condition.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Everybody I know who is paying for their own insurance and isn't Medicare eligible is laying out in the $15K range. I know when I left my job and did the Cobra thing for a while, I was laying out $13K a year, 1) so my insurance hasn't really gone up a big amount. I'm just happy I knowing if I get really ill I'll be able to get great care and I won't go broke in the process. In America, (2)nobody should have to go bankrupt because of the cost for medical care and nobody should have to die just because they can't afford medical care. How you do that certainly has multiple options.

1) Of course not, you're older. ACA increased the costs for younger, healthier consumers, not older consumers. My insurance costs went up 110% (Aetna PPO).

2) The bankruptcy myth was perpetuated by Elizabeth Warren. She misrepresented the role medical costs played in bankruptcies by citing a poll where respondents said medical costs "contributed to" their financial distress. She turned the "contributed to" into "caused" (as in fully responsible for).

Kaiser is a fairly unique model (integrated/managed care) -- most parts of the country have rejected a true managed care model (was given a try in the mid 1990s).

[Clocker]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that ObamaCare has significantly missed its targeted coverage, and has resulted in fewer people having private health insurance and more people on Medicare.

Three years ago, on the eve of Obamacare’s implementation, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected that President Obama's centerpiece legislation would result in an average of 201 million people having private health insurance in any given month of 2016. Now that 2016 is here, the CBO says that just 177 million people, on average, will have private health insurance in any given month of this year—a shortfall of 24 million people.

Indeed, based on the CBO's own numbers, it seems possible that Obamacare has actually reduced the number of people with private health insurance. In 2013, the CBO projected that, without Obamacare, 186 million people would be covered by private health insurance in 2016—160 million on employer-based plans, 26 million on individually purchased plans. The CBO now says that, with Obamacare, 177 million people will be covered by private health insurance in 2016—155 million on employer-based plans, 12 million on plans bought through Obamacare's government-run exchanges, and 9 million on other individually purchased plans (plus a rounding error of 1 million).

None of this is to say that fewer people have "coverage" under Obamacare—it's just not private coverage. In 2013, the CBO projected that 34 million people would be on Medicaid or CHIP (the Children's Health Insurance Program) in 2016. The CBO now says that 68 million people will be on Medicaid or CHIP in 2016—double its earlier estimate. It turns out that Obamacare is pretty much a giant Medicaid expansion.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/cbo-misses-its-obamacare-projection-by-24-million-people/article/2001732

[Dave Schwartz]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that ObamaCare has significantly missed its targeted coverage, and has resulted in fewer people having private health insurance and more people on Medicare.

I believe you meant Medicaid.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I believe you meant Medicaid.

Nitpicker.

[davew]

half the co-ops have failed

HHS snubs nose at Congress
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Hou.../20/id/724902/

[classhandicapper]

I don't have any brilliant ideas for a solution, but democrats need to be honest with people and simply say they want to cover everyone that does not have coverage now and THIS IS HOW MUCH IT IS GOING TO COST THE REST OF US, instead of pretending there is a free lunch.

Once we know what various possibilities will actually cost, then you can begin honest negotiations about what the minimum government care should be, how you can make the system more efficient to save money, how much extra the rest of us are willing to pay to cover others, how you will not infringe on the freedom of others to have nothing to do with the government healthcare etc...

Right now we are on the path to doom.

The government has already promised way more than it can possibly deliver and these nitwits are promising even more.

[Clocker]

A press release from Humana, which sells on ObamaCare exchanges in 15 states.

Humana is in the process of finalizing plans for its ACA-compliant individual commercial medical market offerings in 2017. Humana anticipates proposing a number of changes to retain a viable product for individual consumers, where feasible, and address persistent risk selection challenges. Such changes may include certain statewide market and product exits both on and off exchange, service area reductions and pricing commensurate with anticipated levels of risk by state.

[Tom]

.....commensurate with anticipated levels of risk

No matter how hard the lame left tries, it will never understand that insurance is a gamble and the driving force will always be risk vs reward. Indeed, LIFE boils down to risk vs reward.

You cannot deft the laws of economics no matter how mush $$$ you try to steal from those who are successful.

Basing Health care on ANY type of insurance ensures you have poor health care.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

No matter how hard the lame left tries, it will never understand that insurance is a gamble and the driving force will always be risk vs reward.

Insurance, properly used, is a hedge against risk. It allows the individual to chose according to his own desired level of risk versus reward, paying higher premiums the more risk adverse he is.

If you eliminate the correlation between risk and premiums, as ObamaCare does, it is no longer insurance, it is an entitlement program.