GAMINE - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Secondbest · 08-09-2020, 11:31 AM

CJ. What did you give her?

cj · 08-09-2020, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secondbest

CJ. What did you give her?

One of the more interesting ones from a pace scenario, final time figure of 127 but only 120 overall. Serengeti Empress, on the other hand only a 117 final time figure but a 127 overall.

GMB@BP · 08-09-2020, 01:03 PM

I would bet Gamine in a match up based on their last race.

No doubt pace made it harder to run faster for the Ballarina and while you can laud SE's effort one has to wonder just how bad were the horses behind her? They walked home and no one could pass her.

I have a hard time buying that Bellafina ran as well as Gamine.

This is a case though were time will tell.

jay68802 · 08-09-2020, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

She beat a really good horse at Oaklawn around two turns in Speech. Obviously it wasn't as easy as some of her other wins but it was only her second start.

Yep, but will say, IMO, that Speech, has not yet, proved to me her quality. Will also say I have been wrong before about horses like Speech. You can call her really good, right now I will call her good, with upside.

Gamine looks like a two turn horse. Big, and long. Thought at 7f she was not able to get into her best stride. Was rushed, and won any way. Right now I am thinking Breeders Cup Classic. But that might not be this year. Will be fun to watch.

classhandicapper · 08-10-2020, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I would bet Gamine in a match up based on their last race.

It would an interesting.

Gamine has been wiring while controlling the pace against inferior horses that couldn't keep up with her cruising speed (or in this last race chose not to). It's going to take a very talented horse or some one dimensional speed that doesn't mind engaging her to actually pressure her. SE has the speed to see if she can sit off a horse, battle, and keep going. My guess is that she'd do fine at 7F or a mile.

If the Oaks draws a big enough field, maybe we'll see her get pressed a little at 9F. She ran very well at 8.5f, but she was loose and struggling a little late. Give her another 1/16th and some pressure and we'll see if she's a Rachel caliber horse or a sprinter miler that can win longer on the talent gap.

cj · 08-10-2020, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It would an interesting.

Gamine has been wiring while controlling the pace against inferior horses that couldn't keep up with her cruising speed (or in this last race chose not to). It's going to take a very talented horse or some one dimensional speed that doesn't mind engaging her to actually pressure her. SE has the speed to see if she can sit off a horse, battle, and keep going. My guess is that she'd do fine at 7F or a mile.

If the Oaks draws a big enough field, maybe we'll see her get pressed a little at 9F. She ran very well at 8.5f, but she was loose and struggling a little late. Give her another 1/16th and some pressure and we'll see if she's a Rachel caliber horse or a sprinter miler that can win longer on the talent gap.

I think people are forgetting how good Serengeti Empress was against Covfefe, a filly so good she won the 3yo filly Eclipse Award as strictly a sprinter. Xtra Heat is the only other filly that was able to do that as far as I can remember. Award or not, Covfefe was one serious sprinter and Serengeti wasn't far behind.

classhandicapper · 08-10-2020, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

I think people are forgetting how good she was against Covfefe, a sprinter so good she won the 3yo filly Eclipse Award as strictly a sprinter. Xtra Heat is the only other filly that was able to do that as far as I can remember. Award or not, Covfefe was one serious sprinter and Serengeti wasn't far behind.

I agree. I'd actually love to see it.

My point is that I "think" Gamine could stalk a really fast pace by SE at 7F and still finish really well. I'm less certain she could get a rough testing trip at 9F and still finish well.

GMB@BP · 08-10-2020, 11:07 PM

For the record I am talking about sprinting and not routing.

Did you all see the owner of Venetian Harbor saying that Rosario intentionally laid off Gamine despite the plan being to pressure her from the onset with the reason being to pander to Baffert. Does JV and Rosario have the same agent?

NikeUnlimited · 08-10-2020, 11:17 PM

Ron Anderson is the agent for both Rosario and Johnny V

GMB@BP · 08-10-2020, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikeUnlimited

Ron Anderson is the agent for both Rosario and Johnny V

well that would make sense with his comments, I assumed that is what he meant.

In the old days you could only represent one rider, seems like that was a fairer way to protect the public. Not that protecting the public is of the utmost importance.

metro · 08-11-2020, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

For the record I am talking about sprinting and not routing.

Did you all see the owner of Venetian Harbor saying that Rosario intentionally laid off Gamine despite the plan being to pressure her from the onset with the reason being to pander to Baffert. Does JV and Rosario have the same agent?

Don't recall seeing Baffert using Rosario much. Wouldn't think a guy of Rosario's talent would need to pander for rides.

classhandicapper · 08-11-2020, 09:08 AM

imo

When there are two very fast horses in a race that both want the lead and one is clearly the higher quality speed, there are no good scenarios for the inferior speed except the better horse having a bad day/missing the break or the inferior one having the day of its life. The superior horse will almost always have a higher cruising speed and be able to set a pace that is still comfortable enough for it to continue on, but fast enough to force the inferior speed(s) to pay a price. The harder they try to force the issue, the bigger the price.

It's when they are similar in ability that it gets trickier.

Then if one breaks a bit better or is ridden more aggressively it might seize control and an advantage, but if they both go hard they may both pay the price.

BarchCapper · 08-11-2020, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro

Don't recall seeing Baffert using Rosario much. Wouldn't think a guy of Rosario's talent would need to pander for rides.

Only 31 times for Baffert-Rosario in the last two years, but was the main jock for Game Winner and Nadal during their time on the Derby Trail.

Velazquez is only 12 times in the last two years.

The winning percentages for the combos?

Baffert-Rosario: 38%
Baffert-Velazquez: 42%

Waquoit · 08-11-2020, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Did you all see the owner of Venetian Harbor saying that Rosario intentionally laid off Gamine despite the plan being to pressure her from the onset with the reason being to pander to Baffert.

So he's calling Rosario a cheater? Has he gotten any pushback?

cj · 08-11-2020, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waquoit

So he's calling Rosario a cheater? Has he gotten any pushback?

I wouldn't say he called him a cheater. He said he didn't follow instructions and that there is a conflict of interest. If I owned a horse and gave a plan for riding that was obviously ignored, I'd be pretty pissed.