horse racing etiquette part 3.. am I in the wrong?

[toussaud]

okay this has been nagging at me and I figured i'd ask you guys.

I have this friend who is getting into horse racing. We both are big hog fans and everyone in our football circle knows I'm the "horse racing guy" so when he wanted to start wagering he came to me for advise.

I told him look, i will even help you out for free. I don't need your money, and I don't know what your financial situation is like, but i you want to honestly learn how to gamble on horses I am more than willing to help you out.

okay, so we are at this for 2 weeks. he buys some PP's i spend time going over what is what with him. Mainly focusing on Oaklawn since that's his home track.

So, this saturday comes and he has made some picks and tried to do his own handicapping and he feels good about his stuff. Okay, he asks me what am I playing. Saturday being big cap day, oakalwn was the least of my concerns. I had the santa anita card all ready to go. I told him such. He says well if you like anything you don't have to tell me but if you would i would appreciate it. I mean he's a good guy and It's not like I'm the freaking knights Templar with my picks or anything, it isn't that serious, sure i told him what i was wagering on. He bets 20 across the board (i'm a strictly WPS guy) on all the horses i tell him at santa anita and a few select races from other tracks i had picked out

Saturday I was white hot. Like seriously not red boarding at all i was just on saturday. I had a damn good day. This guy calls me and is up about 700 dollars off my wagers. I mean I'm not broke i made money too i'm happy for him. at this point he says "man i know you didn't want me to send you any money but man i have to after this i want to keep getting your picks". I didn't like that too much..l i was supposed to be showing you how to handicap not running a daily selections service. Anyway even then I telll him look seriously man just keep the money and take the wife out to eat or something, and let this be a lesson to what you can do if you get somewhat good at this. But e guy keeps going on talking about how he wants to send me 100 dollars or what not for helping him out.. im like dud if you really want to go ahead. he said he was going to the casino and would do so after he got back sunday.

so Sunday comes and i didn't' hear from him. he get back late Sunday night and ask me do I have any picks for today (Monday). I tell him that's a dark day for me (it's not i play fair grounds.. i just don't like the idea of giving out picks like i'm a service or something. he said he would get around to it Monday as he had a lot of stuff to do. today comes and i shoot him an email.. he is sending it WU (he's in little rock i li ve in lexington now) and he says "i thought you said you didn't want any money"


it rubbed me the wrong way beucdase he was the one who insisted on doing it. id on't need your damn 100 dollars but don't tell me.. no.. insist you want to do something then when someone ask you did you do it, try to make it like i am making you do something you don't want to

what i think happened is he blew it all at the casino.

it sucks because we were pretty decent friends before this i just think that's kinda F'ed up the way he's handling it. and again he's gone from wanting to learn how to handicap to just wanting to copy my selections which I don't care for.

[Jay Trotter]

Originally Posted by toussaud

... we were pretty decent friends...

Well, my two cents worth would be that if you truly value him as a friend, you forgive him this discretion and then set him straight with regards to the difference between your willingness to "teach him to fish" and giving him "fish"!

Friends should be friends first. We all do thoughtless things from time to time not taking into account the "other side" of the issue. The important thing is to keep the importantance of the friendship first, as real friends aren't easy to come by.

Trotter

ps. Who you got for Tuesday?

[toussaud]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Well, my two cents worth would be that if you truly value him as a friend, you forgive him this discretion and then set him straight with regards to the difference between your willingness to "teach him to fish" and giving him "fish"!

Friends should be friends first. We all do thoughtless things from time to time not taking into account the "other side" of the issue. The important thing is to keep the importantance of the friendship first, as real friends aren't easy to come by.

Trotter

ps. Who you got for Tuesday?

the run i had saturday you probably don't want to know what i am picking ntil the Florida derby lol. just a lot of stuff came together saturday.had gladding come in i don't know what i would have done.

yeah.. he's a friend but not a friend if that makes sense. we tailgate together and stuff but it's not like we are jsut best buds or antyhing but yeah.. it isn't that serious.

[Dahoss9698]

Wow

[johnhannibalsmith]

Sell him guaranteed losers for two weeks until you get the $100 and he quits asking for your picks. Problem solved.

[GameTheory]

For a true friend, a close friend, I take a "what's mine is yours" attitude -- my real friends are welcome to whatever I have to offer. Of course a real friend treats me the same in return.

For just some dude you're fairly friendly with, then read him the riot act and tell him to make his own damn picks, and no dropping hints or pestering about who you are playing.

But I would personally never teach anyone how to handicap unless they were already betting and just wanted to get better at it -- if he turns out to be the wrong sort of person for gambling the last thing I want on my conscience is helping set him on the road to ruin.

[toussaud]

Originally Posted by GameTheory

For a true friend, a close friend, I take a "what's mine is yours" attitude -- my real friends are welcome to whatever I have to offer. Of course a real friend treats me the same in return.

For just some dude you're fairly friendly with, then read him the riot act and tell him to make his own damn picks, and no dropping hints or pestering about who you are playing.

But I would personally never teach anyone how to handicap unless they were already betting and just wanted to get better at it -- if he turns out to be the wrong sort of person for gambling the last thing I want on my conscience is helping set him on the road to ruin.

i was actually thinking about that. if he did actually blow all the money at the casino that kinda proves that theory.

[Vengeance of Rain]

Originally Posted by toussaud

what i think happened is he blew it all at the casino.

it sucks because we were pretty decent friends before this i just think that's kinda F'ed up the way he's handling it. and again he's gone from wanting to learn how to handicap to just wanting to copy my selections which I don't care for.

You're probably right and that's exactly what happened.

If he's worth having as a friend you need to accept the kind of person he is (very messed up insisting and insisting and then reacting as he did), completely forget the $100. and the next time he contacts you about capping just say look man money messes up friendships and I've had a bad experience or something and I'm done trying to show anyone anything about capping so good luck and leave the ball in his court.

Stick to it though... no capping advice ever.

He doesn't need to know he was the bad experience.

If he's your friend he still will be and if not? F*** him.

[Robert Goren]

Forget he ever said anything and go from there. You aren't getting the money for whatever reason. You didn't want to start out with. Call it even. Nothing is going to be gained by bring it up. Get over it.

[v j stauffer]

It's one thing to understand the nuts and bolts of what everything means and basic theory. It's entirely different to become a "horseplayer" and even more so a gambler. All the little nuances that can only be learned over many years of doing it and perhaps more importantly interacting with other fellow players friends or not.

Giving friends picks on anything but a very occasional basis can only have two results. 1. Disaster. 2. Castastrophe.

DO NOT take the $100. Suggest instead you guys and significants others get together for dinner and he can buy a great bottle of wine you can all share and revel in your winning day.

It's a very tough spot. You did nothing wrong. People with good opinions have this happen all the time. Talk to him. A real friend will understand that. Besides the true joy is the evolution of cultivating your own opinion anyway. Soemthing that we all know can only be done by diving into the pool on your own. Doesn't mean you can't go over races together and discuss theory.

However, if you wish to remain friends that's where it should end.

[riskman]

Your friend simply took advantage at the right moment when you were hot and cashed. He was in the right place at the right time and you accommodated him. Then he went to the casino and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Such is life in the world of gambling.

[proximity]

Originally Posted by toussaud

today comes and i shoot him an email.. .

about what?

[HuggingTheRail]

Tell him to give the $100 to charity

PS - my dogs name is Charity...

[alhattab]

Toussaud- Tell him directly what you feel. So tell him 1) forget about the money you don't care and 2) if you're going to the track together or otherwise talking about the track you'll share some thoughts with him, but that you resent him calling you every day with selections.

[menifee]

Let it go. It's never worth it to judge the behavior of others.

You are not responsible for his actions nor can you control them.

If you don't want to give your friend picks in the future then don't.