Trump signs tariffs

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by fast4522

When you think about the miles and miles of shipping containers clogging up our shipping ports can be turned into tariffs in the trillions.

Tariffs are paid by the people that buy the stuff in those containers. Most of the stuff coming from China is going to US companies that use it as inputs into their businesses. They will pass those costs on to their customers. The rest of the things in those containers are consumer products, the tariffs on them paid for by Americans.

[Clocker]

Tariffs 101

[fast4522]

I am just as content to watching this all play out. China will flinch long before it slides into recession, because they are way more likely to crash. They will do much more before flinching, and we will all get to witness it.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by fast4522

China will flinch long before it slides into recession, because they are way more likely to crash. They will do much more before flinching, and we will all get to witness it.

Trade wars will hurt consumers on both sides. Chinese consumers have no choice but to accept the decisions of their leaders.

American consumers will have a choice to respond at the polls in November and in 2020.

[classhandicapper]

People can talk about consumers getting hurt all they want, but the bottom line is we get cheap goods and they jobs, profits, and US assets.

You tell me who has the better deal.

Let's you and I do some trades.

I'll buy $1,000 of stuff from you. I'll sell $10,000 worth of stuff to you a little cheaper than you can get it at WalMart. Then I'm going to take the extra $9000 and buy a portion of your house every year until I eventually own it. After that, you can start owing me money. Oh, and by the way, you'll have to work for less because your manufacturing job is going to shift over to me so I can hire the cheaper labor I need to sell you those cheaper goods.

Don't worry, you are making out like a bandit. You'll have cheaper goods.

Of course, I'll have your salary, own your house, you'll owe me 10s of thousands of dollars and if you do anything I don't like I'll ask for your fist born.

Believe me it's a good deal. You'll have cheaper clothes and electronics etc..

Free trade is great in theory, but only works between partners with very similar education, skills, salaries, taxes, regulations, work ethic etc... Otherwise, one side wins and the other side loses.

Tariffs are a bad way to try to fix the situation, but people need to wake up and at least realize we are getting killed. We need to get some countries to the negotiating table to try to fix these imbalances over the next 10-50 years until we are trading as equals. Right now they are getting richer and their standards of living are rising. Our middle class is getting poorer. That's now how to achieve balance.

[fast4522]

What really pisses of the Chinese is when the President killed the deal that included 5 G cell service. When the next new things come out if they do NOT hold the designs sure they will copy it, but those knock offs become counterfeit available only in black markets. This is the real war Chinese are worried about. The exponential effect that relates to products sold inside these United States is of the highest concern to the Chinese, if they miss just one product cycle they will be in full blown recession.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'll buy $1,000 of stuff from you. I'll sell $10,000 worth of stuff to you a little cheaper than you can get it at WalMart. Then I'm going to take the extra $9000 and buy a portion of your house every year until I eventually own it. After that, you can start owing me money. Oh, and by the way, you'll have to work for less because your manufacturing job is going to shift over to me so I can hire the cheaper labor I need to sell you those cheaper goods.

I actually buy a lot of stuff from WalMart and they buy nothing from me. Why doesn't WalMart own my house by now?

This is a serious question. How is this any different than your hypothetical above?

[Tom]

Because Walmart uses your Credit Card as a third party.

You want to make the economy SUPER good - cancel all CC debt and then outlaw CC's.

Let the banks eat it.

[horses4courses]

Any truth to the rumors that Ivanka's clothing line (mainly supplied from China)
will be exempt from any tariffs? Or, is this just more fake liberal BS?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Any truth to the rumors that Ivanka's clothing line (mainly supplied from China)
will be exempt from any tariffs? Or, is this just more fake liberal BS?

Must be true. Liberals would never lie about something this critical to the security of the country.

[chadk66]

Ivanka will no doubt look to indonesia

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I actually buy a lot of stuff from WalMart and they buy nothing from me. Why doesn't WalMart own my house by now?

This is a serious question. How is this any different than your hypothetical above?

We are total opposites, I buy as little as possible from Walmart. They might even lose money from my purchases. I pretty much get insulin, needles & shoes. I pay cash for my diabetic supplies and they sell a vial of insulin for $25 and everyone else is $100+. since I use almost two vials a month a Walmart trip is worth it. I think the insulin could be a loss leader. I can drive 50 miles round trip to Walmart and not buy another item. As for the shoes I have large duck feet, they are the only place I can find any selection off the shelf that fits decent.

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

We are total opposites, I buy as little as possible from Walmart. They might even lose money from my purchases. I pretty much get insulin, needles & shoes. I pay cash for my diabetic supplies and they sell a vial of insulin for $25 and everyone else is $100+. since I use almost two vials a month a Walmart trip is worth it. I think the insulin could be a loss leader. I can drive 50 miles round trip to Walmart and not buy another item. As for the shoes I have large duck feet, they are the only place I can find any selection off the shelf that fits decent.

Well, at least you can swim good.

[reckless]

I am surprised, make that shocked, shocked! that none of the 'free' trade experts and brilliant economists on here missed --ignored is more like it-- this very important news item:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/b...tPlacement=1&p

... Mr. Xi highlighted areas where China was willing to give, including pledging to ease restrictions on imported cars by the end of the year as well as repeating open-ended promises to give foreigners greater access to the country’s financial markets — promises officials have made in the past. He also pledged to strengthen intellectual property rights, addressing one of Mr. Trump’s main complaints.

His comments struck a tonal contrast with the more combative language coming from Mr. Trump and his administration.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by reckless

His comments struck a tonal contrast with the more combative language coming from Mr. Trump and his administration.

Proving that Mr. Xi has a better understanding of the futility of trade wars than Mr. Trump. I don't remember the president making any offers to negotiate recently, just a unilateral declaration of trade war on his part.

In fact, when trade negotiations with China last summer produced a deal that Commerce Secretary Ross endorsed, Trump rejected it and negotiations broke off.

So much for the art of the deal.

Which brings us to the puzzling part. In July, trade talks between the United States and China simply failed. Press conferences were cancelled. There was scarcely a token attempt at positive spin. Such an abject breakdown is rare, particularly at the ministerial (cabinet) level. It was hard to know what had happened. Perhaps Team Trump had pushed too hard and run up against Chinese ‘red lines.’

Now, the Financial Times story reveals it was worse than that. The U.S. negotiating team had indeed succeeded, but President Trump rejected the deal! In the wake of a G20 meeting in which there were pledges to address global steel overcapacity, China – where the problem is most severe – offered to cut its capacity by 150m tons by 2022. Commerce Secretary Ross, who brings ample expertise from his time as a steel tycoon, endorsed the deal. He took it to the President.

The President said no.

Ross tried again a week later.

The President again said no. He evidently wanted to apply tariffs instead.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillev.../#3572537e6e00