Religion III

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Light

There is a certain amount of what I say that is opinion such as you quoting me as to the purpose of life. Yes I could be wrong about that and maybe we are actually a test tube creation of higher extraterrestrial beings who created within us this quest for God who watch us and get a good laugh. You cannot disprove that either.

It is hard to say where opinion ends and reality begins because a lot of times our opinions become our reality.

I ask myself, what is the ultimate thing I value in life and the answer that is without doubt or opinion is Love. I think that would be most people's answer. I have always told people, when you are on your deathbed and look back in your life, the love connections are the only ones that will be worth anything to you at that point.

This is where God comes in because I don't look at God as an authoritarian religious ruler. I have had some major heartbreaks in my life and I know you have too. Those heartbreaks are always on my mind, like torture sometimes, but less painful as time goes by. And I realize I am heartbroken over a few people in the course of my life that I would die for. They were/are incredibly beautiful to me. And then I realize how much more amazing and beautiful the one who created them must be. And he created within me the ability to experience such incredible love and beauty that no words can touch. But I can't see him/her/it nor hold him/her/it like the physical people in my life.

Maybe I am fooling myself but I have recently begun to feel Love within when I meditate that is not connected to a person place or thing. And as I have stated before I have been meditating for over 40 years. You could say, well you are probably fooling yourself that God is loving you and that is God's love because you are so heartbroken from things in your past. But here's the catch.

I'm the one who's been the skeptic most of my life and don't buy into the "fool yourself" mentality. I'll go into meditation all grumpy and non believing that this love is real mumbling to myself "I never get a break". Yet I come out of meditation with a better attitude and believe me i was in no mood to fool myself into feeling better. I wanted to and expected to stay miserable. I may not even experience anything in particular in a meditation session. But something happens during it that changes my attitude and my outlook on life so that I'm not so grumpy. And it all happened without me realizing what was going on.

So through experiences like this I know, that's not my mere opinion. That there is an inner love and it's real. At which point I remember Jesus's "The Kingdom of Heaven is within You". And I realize he knows what he is talking about. I've never been the type of person to just buy what someone says, so I totally understand you and Actor for your Atheism. You shouldn't buy into Boxcar's drivel of God being this celestial terrorist who loves to roast you in Hell and only loves you if you love him BS.

My standards have always been that I need to experience what God/Jesus are talking about. Or if some author writes something profound or a spiritual master says something, I too require proof. I'm not just going to be a good Sunday school boy.

But as I'm sure you know, (and boxcar will reprimand me for it) there are an infinite number of ways that one comes to find God within themselves. Doesn't have to be through religion. All is within you right now, waiting to be discovered. Nothing else required. Just you going within you.

When I was 6yo, I was taken to a movie and I always remembered this one line from it. The "wise one" told the "seeker" "the first door is where it cannot be seen". Seemed like an interesting riddle at the time but as I grew older I realized it is the state of man's quest for self enlightenment and why he has such a hard time accessing it. Too tricky.

But I finally solved that riddle and found that to be the truth, not an opinion. Of course that door is found within your heart. I looked for years and found nothing there. What I mean is that there was nothing profound,nothing anyone else would not see when they looked in their heart. But now I see something profound is appearing more and more.

The reason I couldn't see it before and now I do is because of a different state of consciousness.

I too meditate. The depth of the experience has varied over the many years. Recently I have gone much deeper. Quieting myself profoundly, and allowing a much greater "something" to gradually appear.

We have only those fleeting direct experiences to rely on, and eventually they have the potential to become more than just an "opinion". Ultimately if we are lucky, we learn how to move out of the way.

Problems arise in communicating these direct momentary glimpses to others. Our particular conceptual framework and background and terminology tend to interfere.

Our intellect although needed in knowing things, is at a disadvantage without emotional understanding of the "divine"

I agree with your statement...

I have recently begun to feel Love within when I meditate that is not connected to a person place or thing.

Maybe Lennon/ Mccartney were telling us what was necessary 50+ years ago? After all the Mantra meditation I do, stems from the same tradition they connected with.

All You Need Is Love
The Beatles

Love, love, love
Love, love, love
Love, love, love
There's nothing you can do that can't be done
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung
Nothing you can say, but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy
Nothing you can make that can't be made
No one you can save that can't be saved
Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time
It's easy

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The inability to be honest with oneself, and pretending to know about things not known, using 2,000 year old rumors to support that pretending.

Spoken like the true lover of your god Ignorance. You're truly at home in the evil one's kingdom of darkness.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I too meditate. The depth of the experience has varied over the many years. Recently I have gone much deeper. Quieting myself profoundly, and allowing a much greater "something" to gradually appear.

We have only those fleeting direct experiences to rely on, and eventually they have the potential to become more than just an "opinion". Ultimately if we are lucky, we learn how to move out of the way.

Problems arise in communicating these direct momentary glimpses to others. Our particular conceptual framework and background and terminology tend to interfere.

Our intellect although needed in knowing things, is at a disadvantage without emotional understanding of the "divine"

I agree with your statement...


Maybe Lennon/ Mccartney were telling us what was necessary 50+ years ago? After all the Mantra meditation I do, stems from the same tradition they connected with.

All You Need Is Love
The Beatles

Love, love, love
Love, love, love
Love, love, love
There's nothing you can do that can't be done
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung
Nothing you can say, but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy
Nothing you can make that can't be made
No one you can save that can't be saved
Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time
It's easy

So Light's love is not even connected to God who is love. Gotta wonder what the object of Light's love is.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by hcap

I will ask it again.

Is Jesus the ONLY way to the Father? Your literal interpretation says so.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Of course! What do you think: God is like Rome and all paths lead to Him?

So your way is the only way?

How do you know other religions, traditions, and teachings, other than your literal minded biblical Christianity, do not lead to the divine territory I have asked you to describe? You are oblivious and ignorant of them all, and in fact most everything else we have discussed.

How do you know? And why should anyone believe you, having done such a piss-poor job explaining yourself?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Spoken like the true lover of your god Ignorance. You're truly at home in the evil one's kingdom of darkness.

Lighten up. Mr Doom and Gloom

YouTube (Short URL)

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So Light's love is not even connected to God who is love. Gotta wonder what the object of Light's love is.

Lighten up. Mr Doom and Gloom

YouTube (Short URL)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

So your way is the only way?

How do you know other religions, traditions, and teachings, other than your literal minded biblical Christianity, do not lead to the divine territory I have asked you to describe? You are oblivious and ignorant of them all, and in fact most everything else we have discussed.

How do you know? And why should anyone believe you, having done such a piss-poor job explaining yourself?

No, God's inspired revelation reveals the only way.

That's simple: The world's religions all teach about what man must do to arrive at the "divine territory"; conversely, the bible teaches what God has done for man to get him to the New Jerusualem. Pretty easy to understand distinction...even for meatheads.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So Light's love is not even connected to God who is love. Gotta wonder what the object of Light's love is.

I have no other explanation that the love I am feeling (in meditation) that has no "object" is God within as Jesus refereed to. I am now certain that God lives within me, (and in everyone else) intertwined in everything I do. God is in me and I in him. I simply have become aware of it. Just like this quote from the Bible:“He who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.” (1 John 4:16)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I have no other explanation that the love I am feeling (in meditation) that has no "object" is God within as Jesus refereed to. I am now certain that God lives within me, (and in everyone else) intertwined in everything I do. God is in me and I in him. I simply have become aware of it. Just like this quote from the Bible:“He who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.” (1 John 4:16)

So, your belief is that you're "abiding in God"?

Secondly, is the object of God's love to get people to feel his love?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, God's inspired revelation reveals the only way.

That's simple: The world's religions all teach about what man must do to arrive at the "divine territory"; conversely, the bible teaches what God has done for man to get him to the New Jerusualem. Pretty easy to understand distinction...even for meatheads.

Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism, non-Abrahamic ways, say nothing about "revelation" That is distinctly Christian. Nor anything about Jesus, your narrow literal interpretation maitains is the only way to the divine.

Why are you denying that? Ever since we discussed this STUFF that has been your chauvinistic position.




'

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism, non-Abrahamic ways, say nothing about "revelation" That is distinctly Christian. Nor anything about Jesus, your narrow literal interpretation maitains is the only way to the divine.

Why are you denying that? Ever since we discussed this STUFF that has been your chauvinistic position.

Learn to read. I never said the world's religions say anything about [divine] revelation or Jesus. Go back and reread what I said.

But since you mentioned "narrow", permit me to expand on thought:

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
NASB

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, your belief is that you're "abiding in God"?

My "beliefs" comes from my experience. And my experience does fit that quote.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Secondly, is the object of God's love to get people to feel his love?

First of all God's love is not an "object". It is an internal experience without borders. An "object" is generally external and with defined borders.

Secondly it's not my job to bring others to God's Love. God's Love will manifest within people when they are ready. Nor am I allowed to interfere in God's timing of when people turn to him.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Learn to read. I never said the world's religions say anything about [divine] revelation or Jesus. Go back and reread what I said.....(blah, blah,blah ad infinitum)

Instead of preaching circular literal biblical Christianity, you should teach tap dancing around the issues.
You still have not answered my question

You have told me many times you believe this literally:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes or no bunky?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So Light's love is not even connected to God who is love. Gotta wonder what the object of Light's love is.

We are both telling you stop theorizing about love and immerse yourself in it.

Meditation removes small "I" from standing in the way of directly experiencing love, compassion and sometimes a profound stillness.

No, an object of love is neither needed or excluded. In certain ways, attaching to "objects" prevents experiencing the "gestalt" of a generalized acceptance of a very different emotional being. The occasional glimpses of the vast territory beyond us, the territory I have suggested you speak of, instead of your repetitions "my way is the only way" prescription, for how to get to that goal.

Why is stopping you?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Instead of preaching circular literal biblical Christianity, you should teach tap dancing around the issues.
You still have not answered my question

You have told me many times you believe this literally:



Yes or no bunky?

I quoted 7 passages in my 5415 in answer to your question and you still don't get it!? You have given new meaning to terms such as "dense" and "dullness". Having said that, however, congrats on coming up with the above passage -- all by yourself yet. Feel free to add it to the 7, since they all teach essentially the same thing.