Special counsel Robert Mueller

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Ken Starr found former POTUS Bill Clinton guilty on 11 counts in his special counsel report.

Robert Mueller found POTUS guilty on zero counts in his special counsel report.

Yet, somehow, Dems see this is a green light to "read between the lines" of what Mueller's report says, and what he said today, and start in on the impeachment process.

Gonna be a fascinating next 17 months.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

What stopped him from listing all the crimes he is guilty of? Without actually indicting him? What's stopping him from making a public statement saying the crimes that Trump is guilty of committing? That would not equate to a formal indictment. Sitting at a podium stating facts doesn't exactly equate to filing an indictment in court.

Again, why are we pussy-footing around here? If not for some grand show intent on continuing all the bullshit we've been through the past couple of years, through to the next election.

I mean, they HAVE to do this, right? It's all they have.

Mueller wasn't going to accuse someone he couldn't prosecute... its that simple.

He said it in the report and he said it in public today.

What he was doing was punting this investigation over to Congress to either bring charges or not bring charges.

Had Barr not inserted himself in the way in which he did we would be having a very very very different discussion.

Had Barr not written his "summary that wasn't a summary" and let the actual summaries Mueller had prepared for public release be released we would be in a very very very different place right now.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Yet, somehow, Dems see this is a green light to "read between the lines" of what Mueller's report says, and what he said today, and start in on the impeachment process..

Mueller, today, just told you what it said...

Some of us who actually read the damn thing already told you what it said... but whatever...

Barr led you guys to believe this was nothing and you bought it hook, line, and sinker... some of us more pragmatic thinkers didn't take the bait.

Here we are...

[woodtoo]

Mueller is an empty suit with no cajones.
Pragmatic thinkers are full of it.

[woodtoo]

The President is presumed innocent now and after an impeachment is announced. Democrats have become dumpster divers.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Mueller, today, just told you what it said...

Some of us who actually read the damn thing already told you what it said... but whatever...

Barr led you guys to believe this was nothing and you bought it hook, line, and sinker... some of us more pragmatic thinkers didn't take the bait.

Here we are...

So you are calling yourself Pragmatic now.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Mueller, today, just told you what it said...

Some of us who actually read the damn thing already told you what it said... but whatever...

Barr led you guys to believe this was nothing and you bought it hook, line, and sinker... some of us more pragmatic thinkers didn't take the bait.

Here we are...

I've read the report. Some bad stuff in it, and a lot of stuff that gets completely over-exaggerated by folks like yourself for purely pathetic political reasons. You never call out any of them in particular, but only say "READ THE REPORT!" as your lifeboat to end all conversation about the Mueller Report..

The only slow people are the ones building it up more than it was. Trump says stupid shit. Always has always will. At the end of any day, he didn't fire Mueller or interrupt his investigation. And that is a cold hard FACT regardless of how many "what ifs", or "he wanted to" bullshit remarks you ever want to make.

Mueller actually gave forth commendation to Barr in his handling of the report. He didn't deny anything Barr said, but yet we still have the conspiracy theorists who full on claim Barr lied to us.

I don't blame you. It is all the Dems have left to remove Trump from office. Take your swing and let the chips fall where they may. Start the impeachment process and get another 4 years of ORANGE MAN BAD. While I'm not a Trump lover, I'll take him over any of the 50 or so radicals that are completely removed from reality that the left has to offer right now.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by chrisl

So you are calling yourself Pragmatic now.

Well... some of us were duped by Barr and some of us weren't...

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Its not debatable unless you're so bought in at this point there is no turning back...

Like I said people can wait until Mueller testifies and I'm proven right again or they could just go, "hey maybe Mueller didn't intend, nor intended for Barr, to exonerate the President on Obstruction of Justice charges, maybe we got that wrong."

But that would be too hopeful and given the victory lap everyone took when Barr's letter came out I guess maybe a teeny bit explainable.

We've entered Triple-Down Territory...

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Mueller wasn't going to accuse someone he couldn't prosecute... its that simple.

He said it in the report and he said it in public today.

What he was doing was punting this investigation over to Congress to either bring charges or not bring charges.

Had Barr not inserted himself in the way in which he did we would be having a very very very different discussion.

Had Barr not written his "summary that wasn't a summary" and let the actual summaries Mueller had prepared for public release be released we would be in a very very very different place right now.

Mueller just told everybody his investigation was a waste of money. According to Mueller's reasoning if he found that Candidate Trump colluded with the Russians Mueller couldn't charge him due to the DoJ guidelines. The whole investigation was an exercise in futility, per Mueller.

Mueller could not punt his investigation to Congress, because Congress does not have prosecutorial powers. Oh wait, neither does Mueller according to Mueller, due to the DoJ opinion. Mueller apparently was doing set-up work for the D's. Only, one problem he didn't make a finding that the President committed a crime.

Regarding AG Barr, he acted properly, unlike Mueller.

[fast4522]

Well instead of cutting personality's I would say Mueller was handed a charter to which he did not fulfill. It is not Robert Mueller's fault that the President was well insulated by Rudolph William Louis Giuliani. James Brien Comey Jr. commented that it was like a Mafia on the Trump train, meaning nothing got to the Donald without full review. Any other person would have been snared in that bogus trap of false information and misled FISA warrants. This is hardball at its core and breadcrumbs will all lead to their respective participants who will eventually be prosecuted, and will be the best movie of a generation when it comes to the screen.

[MargieRose]

From Mueller's statement:

The appointment order directed the office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. This included investigating any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign.

And I will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments, that there were multiple systemic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American.

If Mueller's "central" concern was over Russian interference in the election, why did the "THIS" not include investigating any "links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with"...the Clinton campaign?

...if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.

How about ...if we had had confidence that the president clearly DID commit a crime, we would have said so?? Of course, he didn't want to say it in a way that would sound better for the President...agenda, agenda?

...the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing.

So, what do we have here...PROBABLE cause or POSSIBLE cause? Send it to the Demos to decide! What is that agenda??

And...the bottom line:

Now, before I step away, I want to thank the attorneys, the FBI agents, the analysts, the professional staff who helped us conduct this investigation in a fair and independent manner.

These individuals who spent nearly two years with the special counsel's office were of the highest integrity.

"...of the highest integrity." How many fired? How many reassigned? As Marshall Bennett alluded to in the now-closed thread, and I concur, Mueller is trying to deflect from the real crimes of his chosen few and probably those of his own, as well. PUNT, and save some butt!! THE AGENDA!!

[Burls]

Let me throw this out there for you "Apples and Oranges" experts.

Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime during the 2016 US election,
the Mueller Report sets out the particulars of no less than ten instances where
there is sufficient evidence that he intentionally obstructed the Special Counsel's Investigation.

So he broke the US law AFTER the 2016 US election.
Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime DURING the 2016 US election
is IRRELEVANT to whether or not he obstructed justice on those ten occasions AFTER the 2016 US election.
He did.
The Mueller Report preserves the evidence that he did.

As Mueller made clear today, the Office of the Special Counsel had determined that
it would NOT accuse Doofus Drumph of any crimes
regardless of what the investigation uncovered
because that would be against the standing DOJ policy.

So before they even STARTED the investigation,
the OSC had ALREADY DECIDED that, no matter what,
Doofus Drumph, the sitting US President, would not be accused of committing any crimes.

Instead, the question of whether or not the sitting US President had committed any crimes
would be DETERMINED BY CONGRESS, as set out in the US Constitution.

For whatever reason, Bill (the sycophant) Barr,
took it upon himself - contrary to the US Constitution -
to make that determination in a way that pleased his master.

Today, Mueller made it clear that it was not Bill Barr's place to make that decision.
The Mueller Report was prepared FOR CONGRESS so that THEY could make that decision.
And it's time for the US Congress to do it's Constitutionally-mandated job,
according to Robert Mueller.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Burls

Let me throw this out there for you "Apples and Oranges" experts.

Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime during the 2016 US election,
the Mueller Report sets out the particulars of no less than ten instances where
there is sufficient evidence that he intentionally obstructed the Special Counsel's Investigation.

So he broke the US law AFTER the 2016 US election.
Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime DURING the 2016 US election
is IRRELEVANT to whether or not he obstructed justice on those ten occasions AFTER the 2016 US election.
He did.
The Mueller Report preserves the evidence that he did.

As Mueller made clear today, the Office of the Special Counsel had determined that
it would NOT accuse Doofus Drumph of any crimes
regardless of what the investigation uncovered
because that would be against the standing DOJ policy.

So before they even STARTED the investigation,
the OSC had ALREADY DECIDED that, no matter what,
Doofus Drumph, the sitting US President, would not be accused of committing any crimes.

Instead, the question of whether or not the sitting US President had committed any crimes
would be DETERMINED BY CONGRESS, as set out in the US Constitution.

For whatever reason, Bill (the sycophant) Barr,
took it upon himself - contrary to the US Constitution -
to make that determination in a way that pleased his master.

Today, Mueller made it clear that it was not Bill Barr's place to make that decision.
The Mueller Report was prepared FOR CONGRESS so that THEY could make that decision.
And it's time for the US Congress to do it's Constitutionally-mandated job,
according to Robert Mueller.

For you citizens of the Crown, our laws are different than your laws.

Again Congress does not investigate crimes. Here in the U.S. we have certain rights including the presumption of innocence, due process and the ability to confront witnesses. Congressional hearings have none of these safeguards as they are not prosecutorial. Congress does not have prosecutorial powers.

Mueller with today's political speech, as a prosecutor thrashed all of those rights of a citizen and violated prosecutorial guidelines by besmirching a citizen, who has the presumption of innocence.

Bottom line, no finding of obstruction by Mueller means the President, as any other citizen, is presumed innocent. There is no standard of; we cannot say the citizen did not commit a crime. Maybe that is the standard under the Crown, but not here in the U.S.

Again AG Barr has the Constitutional authority, as part of the Executive branch to make prosecutorial decisions.

You really need to stop misrepresenting Constitutional acts as being unconstitutional. Better yet stop misrepresenting a foreign countries laws which you know absolutely nothing about.

[Show Me the Wire]

Here is another little tidbit. Congress has no power to compel the President to testify.

To prove obstruction, we all know by now, the element of intent is needed. Without the President's testimony there is no way intent can be proven, as evidenced by Mueller's written report.

No nexus and no provable intent, leaves the hearings dead in the water, with their only purpose harassment, of a duly elected, President.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Burls

Let me throw this out there for you "Apples and Oranges" experts.

Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime during the 2016 US election,
the Mueller Report sets out the particulars of no less than ten instances where
there is sufficient evidence that he intentionally obstructed the Special Counsel's Investigation.

So he broke the US law AFTER the 2016 US election.
Whether or not there is sufficient evidence that Doofus Drumph committed a crime DURING the 2016 US election
is IRRELEVANT to whether or not he obstructed justice on those ten occasions AFTER the 2016 US election.
He did.
The Mueller Report preserves the evidence that he did.

As Mueller made clear today, the Office of the Special Counsel had determined that
it would NOT accuse Doofus Drumph of any crimes
regardless of what the investigation uncovered
because that would be against the standing DOJ policy.

So before they even STARTED the investigation,
the OSC had ALREADY DECIDED that, no matter what,
Doofus Drumph, the sitting US President, would not be accused of committing any crimes.

Instead, the question of whether or not the sitting US President had committed any crimes
would be DETERMINED BY CONGRESS, as set out in the US Constitution.

For whatever reason, Bill (the sycophant) Barr,
took it upon himself - contrary to the US Constitution -
to make that determination in a way that pleased his master.

Today, Mueller made it clear that it was not Bill Barr's place to make that decision.
The Mueller Report was prepared FOR CONGRESS so that THEY could make that decision.
And it's time for the US Congress to do it's Constitutionally-mandated job,
according to Robert Mueller.

That is so nice, you lose again