Why not Criticize Pletcher-Ellis?Facts! - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

only11 · 06-13-2010, 08:43 AM

Quality Road-Has won 1 race outside of Gulfstream park..why dont you criticize Pletcher for not traveling to the West...
Rail Trip-Has never raced in the east coast...For the Zen haters who keep posting about the rockies why dont you criticize Ellis for not shipping to race in yesterdays Foster..Have you seen the horses Rail Trip has beaten
Sangaree.the mighty Slew Tiznow,lost to Ball Four..the mighty Dakota Phone..the sprinter Tres Borrachos..and lets not forget Cigar Man..
Rachel Alexandra-has any horse that Ra has beaten last year and this year have come back and won a race yet?

Sherrifs is doing whats best for Zenyatta...hes hand picking her races in order for her to be at her best come BC time...She 6 years old...

Before you criticize Sherriffs,,,whos has done nothing wrong..wheres the criticism of Pletcher and Ellis...Zen has run twice today will be her third...HMMMM Quality has run twice....Rail Trip has run once before yesterday...You think there hand picking there races...?

shouldacoulda · 06-13-2010, 08:51 AM

Wow, I have to keep an eye on this thread. You laid down the gauntlet. I think they are both great.

sandpit · 06-13-2010, 09:07 AM

Only 11, I was thinking the same thing last night about the Ellis/Pletcher deal, without throwing in the anti-Z/RA factor. Realistically, all these jokers hand pick their races because the economics of the game have changed over the years. Could you imagine any of them taking their horse on a nationwide tour like Spectacular Bid in 1980?

After the Derby, Pletcher said was worried to death about the 2 week turnaround until the Preakness. You know why; most modern trainers pound on their horses every morning, overtraining the crap out of them to the point where they are not race ready every time. There was a horse, whose name escapes me, at Ellis Park many years ago. He used to run every week in the stifling heat there, and win a huge percentage of his races. All he did was race and walk, none of this "we need six works between races" mentality.
Halfway through the year, there are a few leading candidates for horse of the year, and none of them have made more than 3 starts. There should be a criteria to be considered for HOTY, you should make at least 8 starts.

Sunday morning rant over.

Hedevar · 06-13-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Quality Road-Has won 1 race outside of Gulfstream park..why dont you criticize Pletcher for not traveling to the West...
Rail Trip-Has never raced in the east coast...For the Zen haters who keep posting about the rockies why dont you criticize Ellis for not shipping to race in yesterdays Foster..Have you seen the horses Rail Trip has beaten
Sangaree.the mighty Slew Tiznow,lost to Ball Four..the mighty Dakota Phone..the sprinter Tres Borrachos..and lets not forget Cigar Man..
Rachel Alexandra-has any horse that Ra has beaten last year and this year have come back and won a race yet?

Sherrifs is doing whats best for Zenyatta...hes hand picking her races in order for her to be at her best come BC time...She 6 years old...

Before you criticize Sherriffs,,,whos has done nothing wrong..wheres the criticism of Pletcher and Ellis...Zen has run twice today will be her third...HMMMM Quality has run twice....Rail Trip has run once before yesterday...You think there hand picking there races...?

History tells us that if a horse is to be cosidered a true "horse of the ages" the horse must travel and run on various types of tracks taking them as they come.

Before air travel for horses it was by rail or van but all the truly greats traveled. Their owners were sportsmen and women who understood that people wanted to see great horses race in person.

Much in racing has changed but that much has not. The all time greats traveled and raced throughout the country. Now some choose to go worldwide.

only11 · 06-13-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedevar

History tells us that if a horse is to be cosidered a true "horse of the ages" the horse must travel and run on various types of tracks taking them as they come.

Before air travel for horses it was by rail or van but all the truly greats traveled. Their owners were sportsmen and women who understood that people wanted to see great horses race in person.

Much in racing has changed but that much has not. The all time greats traveled and raced throughout the country. Now some choose to go worldwide.

Would you agree the reason being is because the breeding industry has taken over the game?

GaryG · 06-13-2010, 09:51 AM

The last HOY to race on the west coast (except for the BC) was Azeri in 2002. The last non-California based HOY that traveled west (other than the BC) was Cigar.

only11 · 06-13-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryG

The last HOY to race on the west coast (except for the BC) was Azeri in 2002. The last non-California based HOY that traveled west (other than the BC) was Cigar.

GAry do you remember the year ALL ALONG won HOY ?That was impressive..

FenceBored · 06-13-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Quality Road-Has won 1 race outside of Gulfstream park..why dont you criticize Pletcher for not traveling to the West...

Wrong. His maiden win was at Aqu. He won the Amsterdam at Sar. He won the Met Mile at Bel.

Overall:
5-4-1-0 at Gulfstream
5-3-1-1 outside of Gulfstream

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Rachel Alexandra-has any horse that Ra has beaten last year and this year have come back and won a race yet?

Here are just the next out stakes winners from Rachel's 2009 races:

Afleet Deceit - (beat last out winner of G1 Ashland)
Big Drama
Flashing - G1
Four Gifts - G3
Gabby's Golden Girl - G1
Summer Bird - G1

But don't let facts get in your way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Sherrifs is doing whats best for Zenyatta...hes hand picking her races in order for her to be at her best come BC time...She 6 years old...

Before you criticize Sherriffs,,,whos has done nothing wrong..wheres the criticism of Pletcher and Ellis...Zen has run twice today will be her third...HMMMM Quality has run twice....Rail Trip has run once before yesterday...You think there hand picking there races...?

I'm just curious about your use of "hand picking." Pletcher said immediately after the Donn, which was QR's 2nd race of the year (so he has now run 3 times), that QR's next race would be the Met Mile. Naming your goal over 3 months out is now "hand picking?" How many owners and trainers "hand pick" the Kentucky Derby for their 2yos? What's the alternative, throwing darts at the national stakes schedule?

Hedevar · 06-13-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Would you agree the reason being is because the breeding industry has taken over the game?

Yes, I think that is probably the biggest reason by far. I also think the lack of great horses traveling is one of the reasons (there are obviously others) for such pitiful attendance at racetracks today. Whatever you think of Jess Jackson, and I have my own opinion, he took Curlin to Dubai, tried him on the turf and even ran him on Santa Anita's synthetic. He has to get some credit for those moves.

Fager Fan · 06-13-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Quality Road-Has won 1 race outside of Gulfstream park..why dont you criticize Pletcher for not traveling to the West...

Geez, that ignores that he's raced (not necessarily won) a number of times away from Gulfstream.

Any you're wrong about that anyway. QR won the Amsterdam and Met Mile, which are 2 races he's won outside of Gulfstream.

Dahoss9698 · 06-13-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

Before you criticize Sherriffs,,,whos has done nothing wrong..wheres the criticism of Pletcher and Ellis...Zen has run twice today will be her third...HMMMM Quality has run twice....Rail Trip has run once before yesterday...You think there hand picking there races...?

The others have picked out most of your other errors, so I'll point out the last one. Quality Road has made 3 starts this year. Not two.

I think it's pretty obvious why Quality Road isn't shipping west. The surface. Not to mention, if they did ship, Zenyatta wouldn't be in the race anyway. She's avoiding the top of the mountain until November.

only11 · 06-13-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Wrong. His maiden win was at Aqu. He won the Amsterdam at Sar. He won the Met Mile at Bel.

Overall:
5-4-1-0 at Gulfstream
5-3-1-1 outside of Gulfstream

Here are just the next out stakes winners from Rachel's 2009 races:

Afleet Deceit - (beat last out winner of G1 Ashland)
Big Drama
Flashing - G1
Four Gifts - G3
Gabby's Golden Girl - G1
Summer Bird - G1

But don't let facts get in your way.

I'm just curious about your use of "hand picking." Pletcher said immediately after the Donn, which was QR's 2nd race of the year (so he has now run 3 times), that QR's next race would be the Met Mile. Naming your goal over 3 months out is now "hand picking?" How many owners and trainers "hand pick" the Kentucky Derby for their 2yos? What's the alternative, throwing darts at the national stakes schedule?

I should have said the east coast..fence bored,,,what about Munnings,Musket Man,Summer Bird did win the travers then was injured ,Mine that Bird,Bullsbay,Macho Again...those males were world beaters have any of them come back won..
Wait didnt sherriffs say what his plans were with Zenyatta..and everyone loves to bury him for being conservative..wouldnt you say Pletcher and Ellis doing the same thing?

only11 · 06-13-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Geez, that ignores that he's raced (not necessarily won) a number of times away from Gulfstream.

Any you're wrong about that anyway. QR won the Amsterdam and Met Mile, which are 2 races he's won outside of Gulfstream.

I should ve said the east coast...my bad

only11 · 06-13-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

The others have picked out most of your other errors, so I'll point out the last one. Quality Road has made 3 starts this year. Not two.

I think it's pretty obvious why Quality Road isn't shipping west. The surface. Not to mention, if they did ship, Zenyatta wouldn't be in the race anyway. She's avoiding the top of the mountain until November.

Did Pletcher avoid the Foster?Seems to me everyone thinks QR is the top horse in training.

Dahoss9698 · 06-13-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by only11

I should have said the east coast..your fence bored,,,what about Munnings,Musket Man,Summer Bird id win the travers then was injured ,Mine that Bird,Bullsbay,Macho Again...those males were world beaters have any of them come back won..
Wait didnt sherriffs say what his plans were with Zenyatta..and everyone loves to bury him for being conservative..wouldnt you say Pletcher and Ellis doing the same thing?

How are Pletcher and Ellis being conservative by running in the top races on the circuit where they are? If Zenyatta isn't going to ship, okay. But why not run against males while at home?