Worst beat of ALL TIME (Rainbow 6 at Gulfstream)

[SandyLoam]

In a situation, like this, reactions are often typical.

You don't question the stewards and if you get a tough beat, tough luck, and you may have even had it coming. The old Deal With It.

Well, no. Racing has absolutely no credibility because of the inconsistency of its officiating. In the Breeders Cup, as in other big races or the Super Bowl, it's "the refs are letting them play." Well, no. There can be no confidence, credibility, trust or goodwill when these types of calls are made almost whimsically. And when you see the Breeders Cup stewards watching a football game in the booth, you know how lackadaisical they really are. Entitled.

Every day at every track, bad, wrong things happen, even on the biggest days.

The fact Gulfstream did everything it could to put a lid on this call, including not posting the full video and not explaining its DQ, is a siren call for what the game's lords think of its customers. This is blatant, offensive, aggressive contempt aimed directly at the horseplayer in the name of Gulfstream's money grab. When your first inkling is that it's fixed and that it probably is, there's a problem.

As for boycotts, don't you think you have to? Arlington is off my radar for dozens of reasons. In fact, racing has been virtually off my radar all year so far.

Every time I touch base with this forum or any other, the bubbling cesspool of the sport is appalling.

Besides the pageantry, beautiful (drugged) horses and the excitement of the exorbitantly taxed wager, what on earth is truly compelling anymore about American Thoroughbred racing? Maybe that's another thread. Even the national handicapping tournament appears to have been tainted, because of the genius way it was administered.

You keep getting hit over the head with a hammer . . .

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The bettors WANTED the money to remain in the pool...so they could have a crack at it themselves in the future. Greed is a more powerful emotion than the call for justice.

We are our own worst enemies in this game...and we get the treatment that we deserve in the end.

Do you need help off your soapbox Thask?

I have no idea why others disagree with your/CJ's position, but mine has nothing to do with the carryover (I will most likely play on closing day, though). In my mind, it's gambling. Here's what I want when it comes to gambling: pre-set rules and no cheating. Both of those conditions were met. Gulfstream isn't selling Medicare Advantage plans to little old ladies.

[cj]

That was some non-DQ at Gulfstream today. Different rules for different races it appears.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I'd like to know how this person can hit a pick 6, for a dollar, with a 35-1 shot at the end of the bet, with a bunch of other longshots sprinkled in for good measure.

Did I miss the answer to this post - great point/question SRU!

[speed]

Originally Posted by cj

That was some non-DQ at Gulfstream today. Different rules for different races it appears.

Took an hour longer than i expected for a comment on it. Gotta say i thought they were gonna make the DQ. They had to after the other day?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

That was some non-DQ at Gulfstream today. Different rules for different races it appears.

Are the GP stewards paid by the state of Florida (it's gaming/racing entity) or the track? In NY State, I believe the t'bred stewards and harness judges are paid by the state?

[cj]

Originally Posted by speed

Took an hour longer than i expected for a comment on it. Gotta say i thought they were gonna make the DQ. They had to after the other day?

I wasn't near a computer! It was an awful non-call. I can't believe it only took a few days to prove the no consistency statement, which is exactly what causes all the mistrust.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Are the GP stewards paid by the state of Florida (it's gaming/racing entity) or the track? In NY State, I believe the t'bred stewards and harness judges are paid by the state?

One by the state, two are Gulfstream employees. Frankly, the fact that any stewards are employed by tracks anywhere is mind boggling, let alone a majority.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

I wasn't near a computer! It was an awful non-call. I can't believe it only took a few days to prove the no consistency statement, which is exactly what causes all the mistrust.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

One by the state, two are Gulfstream employees. Frankly, the fact that any stewards are employed by tracks anywhere is mind boggling, let alone a majority.

Wow, that's surprising - see there's my own ignorance at work. Should I demand a refund of all my GP wagers??? Just kidding with you.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by cj

That was some non-DQ at Gulfstream today. Different rules for different races it appears.

I could make another long post about consistency, transparency, integrity, etc., maybe put something up on the HANA Blog... but I'm thinking Yogi Berra said it better than I can:

"It's like déjà vu all over again."

-jp

.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence

I don't think it is malice, but plenty of others do.

Imagine if the gaming commission was hired by the casinos? Isn't that about the same as stewards being track employees?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

I don't think it is malice, but plenty of others do.

Imagine if the gaming commission was hired by the casinos? Isn't that about the same as stewards being track employees?

I'm with you on this one - that saying just came to mind. Am I right about NY state - stewards employed by the state?

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by cj

I wasn't near a computer! It was an awful non-call. I can't believe it only took a few days to prove the no consistency statement, which is exactly what causes all the mistrust.

Yep. Here's the quote in response to the last DQ.

"A horse must maintain a straight path down the lane so as not to impede, interfere or intimidate another horse."

[iceknight]

Let's recap this thread bit. Ok, I am recapping for myself.

Situation: Race 12 GP on Feb 22
1. Horse crossing the line first would've paid out entire Rainbow six pool to one bettor who had a proper 20 cent ticket apparently.

2. Because of stretch run, stewards call for inquiry. Also, jockey on other horse (Lopez) files objection against the horse crossing the wire first. Do jockeys see the inquiry sign and decide they have a better chance to object? Also, do bettors know which one came up first (stewards inquiry or jockey objection)? Also are there 2 or 3 stewards - I keep seeing conflicting info. Do they all sit at the same place or do they make independent, uninfluenced judgements and cast a vote 2/3 for majority calls?

3. DQ is handed out- it is a judgement call DQ. So far, things are "technically" according to rules, but (what I know as an "inexperienced player know) there are only 2 stewards and they sit in the same room so is a DQ awarded only if it is unanimous? Obviously for deliberations to be recorded or seen live would be great for transparency.

Why have people been mad when they have no horse in the game? I did not even play GP that day but when I go to check the head on replay - it is NOT available then and nor the next day (on GP track site, or xpressbet and twinspires). Some players mentioned Amwest but not everyone is aware of that. The headons are available since late Sunday but only after twitter and this message board became very vocal about that absence.

Discussion of "protecting bettors", from buying tickets for $1 vs $0.20 when it is clearly advertized as the 20 cent rainbox pick 6, merely dilutes the ongoing discussion from the main problem large carryover<>DQ<>track involvement-perceived lack of transparency.

I feel that players should focus more on ensuring transparency with respect to role of the track (past posting/odds change etc, effect of DQs on large carryovers). The other issue that we need to focus a lot more is the medication and violations issue.