You know who absolutely crushes it on mandatory payout days? - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Andy Asaro · 01-30-2023, 10:00 AM

$w1fT · 01-30-2023, 10:02 AM

This is some disturbing stuff

lamboguy · 01-30-2023, 11:24 AM

i wish you guys the best of luck betting your money and battling the CAW and then paying the takeout and breakage. for these multi-race wagers, the CAW most likely has the winner in the first race 99% of the time with the tools they possess, and the ones all us from the land of the bafuda don't have.

AndyC · 01-30-2023, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $w1fT

This is some disturbing stuff

How so? This was the predicted outcome when the jackpot bets were first introduced. The small players build the pot and the big players reap the rewards.

What should be encouraging is that the results show that good handicapping and a willingness to make large wagers are the only things required to be successful playing the mandatory payouts.

Andy Asaro · 01-30-2023, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

How so? This was the predicted outcome when the jackpot bets were first introduced. The small players build the pot and the big players reap the rewards.

What should be encouraging is that the results show that good handicapping and a willingness to make large wagers are the only things required to be successful playing the mandatory payouts.

It's about a small group of people being given a license to play a different game than the rest of us. Everyone in any parimutuel pool should be playing with zero rebates and there should be one lower takeout rate for everyone. Especially at Gulfstream. If the Industry wants to grow the game that it.

lamboguy · 01-30-2023, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

It's about a small group of people being given a license to play a different game than the rest of us. Everyone in any parimutuel pool should be playing with zero rebates and there should be one lower takeout rate for everyone. Especially at Gulfstream. If the Industry wants to grow the game that it.

in any business these days companies give their larger customers rewards. if you are a very frequent flyer you not only get your bonus trip faster, but you get free admission to the courtesy rooms at the airports and you are allowed to get a free upgrade to first class should a seat become available. if you are a big spender at Home Depot or Lowes, they give you up to a 30 % discount. the same thing is with horseplayers. the problem that i have with the CAW is they have special tools to extract large amounts of money out of horseplayers that don't have these tools. i am not going into the subject of these special tools because i don't need any more arguments today, i am going to leave that to your imagination as to what they have.

Andy Asaro · 01-30-2023, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamboguy

in any business these days companies give their larger customers rewards. if you are a very frequent flyer you not only get your bonus trip faster, but you get free admission to the courtesy rooms at the airports and you are allowed to get a free upgrade to first class should a seat become available. if you are a big spender at Home Depot or Lowes, they give you up to a 30 % discount. the same thing is with horseplayers. the problem that i have with the CAW is they have special tools to extract large amounts of money out of horseplayers that don't have these tools. i am not going into the subject of these special tools because i don't need any more arguments today, i am going to leave that to your imagination as to what they have.

It doesn't belong in parimutuel wagering. They could buy them a car, a house, or an small island if they are that great of Customers.

$w1fT · 01-30-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

How so? This was the predicted outcome when the jackpot bets were first introduced. The small players build the pot and the big players reap the rewards.

What should be encouraging is that the results show that good handicapping and a willingness to make large wagers are the only things required to be successful playing the mandatory payouts.

It's very simple. The CAW teams made up 42.6% of handle and 72.5% of winnings paid out in those pools. I'm sure the other pools that CAW's are in having similar disparities.

Which tells me that the regular player has no shot against these teams and that the CAW money is the only thing propping the industry up.

lamboguy · 01-30-2023, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

It doesn't belong in parimutuel wagering. They could buy them a car, a house, or an small island if they are that great of Customers.

we are dealing in a game called pari-mutuel wagering. to me that would suggest that everyone plays on the same level playing field. if you believe in that statement, then you will have the same perspective of the game as i have. as far as i am concerned i have no problem at all with people that are betting big money that get rebates as long as the other bennies don't come with it. it gives the non-rebate player a shot at the big money they add to the pools with a short money stance. if you take away the rebate, you lose business from people that have no edge at all. a CAW player gets an edge and a rebate.

AndyC · 01-30-2023, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

It's about a small group of people being given a license to play a different game than the rest of us. Everyone in any parimutuel pool should be playing with zero rebates and there should be one lower takeout rate for everyone. Especially at Gulfstream. If the Industry wants to grow the game that it.

From the data presented, rebates have not determined success in the mandatory payout bets. Complaining about how all the good players win most of the pool is just sour grapes.

AndyC · 01-30-2023, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $w1fT

It's very simple. The CAW teams made up 42.6% of handle and 72.5% of winnings paid out in those pools. I'm sure the other pools that CAW's are in having similar disparities.

Which tells me that the regular player has no shot against these teams and that the CAW money is the only thing propping the industry up.

Being a CAW does not provide an edge in the P-6 pool. Good handicapping and betting large amounts provides the edge.

Andy Asaro · 01-30-2023, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

From the data presented, rebates have not determined success in the mandatory payout bets. Complaining about how all the good players win most of the pool is just sour grapes.

It's pretty well know the the biggest players (CAW)are very happy breaking even or even losing a couple %. Good? Or do they have a technology, bankroll, skill, AND rebate edge?

PaceAdvantage · 01-30-2023, 01:49 PM

Well, you have to be GOOD ENOUGH to be close to breaking even at least...which is something most people can't say.

Cholly · 01-30-2023, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/PatCummingsTIF/s...44894498783232

Well you could look at the bright side of this...

Since NYRA is co-Owner of Elite Turf Club, when playing the jackpot pools, you're supporting New York racing.

thaskalos · 01-30-2023, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

Being a CAW does not provide an edge in the P-6 pool. Good handicapping and betting large amounts provides the edge.

Does the CAW have access to the "odds/will-pay boards/matrices" which are inaccessible to the rest of the betting public? And if so...would that constitute a noteworthy "edge"?