Did Restoring Hope help Justify tactically in the Belmont...?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Prioress Ply

Good response to an asinine post. NASCAR isn't taking 3% of the pool.

Was wondering when you would show up.

What took so long?

[Lono]

I respect JV also, Just like when he Rode Life at Ten. Knew something was wrong with the horse in the warm up, even mentioned it before going to the gate, but yet rode, or should I say let the horse break and pull up. Who got screwed there.

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by Denny

Jocko,
This is what I wrote in #252:

The aerial shot clearly shows Restoring Hope committing a foul on Noble Indy going into the first turn. It also shows RH coming in and crowding/herding Bravazso on the first turn after that..

No claim of foul by any jockeys that ride for these big super trainers. Don't want to jeopardize a future riding assignment???

No inquiry posted.

It was all ignored by all parties concerned including those responsible for policing the sport - the stewards.

Dirty game, and they get away with it time after time.

Nobody gives a crap about the betting public.

They must think we're all idiots. Maybe we are.

===

Is that whining to you?

If it is, why single me out when several others have made similar arguments in this thread?

Or do you have a comprehension problem? Seriously.

Yes it is and my comprehension problems are only associated with your posts.

[Denny]

JV and JC have also been collaborating for years. Even if not riding for the same trainer.

Remember one Florida Derby a few years ago when one cleared a path, dueling with the the main competition, then moved over into that rival and opened the rail for his buddy to come through and win.

This time JC didn't follow the plan even though both were riding for Pletcher and that's why Repole got pissed off.

Jockey collusion is commonplace. They probably have purse sharing deals behind the scenes.

Possible trainer and jockey deals should be investigated. Follow the money and see if Geroux got a bonus from Baffert for running interference.

Of course this can't possibly happen. None of it.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Denny

JV and JC have also been collaborating for years. Even if not riding for the same trainer.

Remember one Florida Derby a few years ago when one cleared a path, dueling with the the main competition, then moved over into that rival and opened the rail for his buddy to come through and win.

This time JC didn't follow the plan even though both were riding for Pletcher and that's why Repole got pissed off.

Jockey collusion is commonplace. They probably have purse sharing deals behind the scenes.

Possible trainer and jockey deals should be investigated. Follow the money and see if Geroux got a bonus from Baffert for running interference.

Of course this can't possibly happen. None of it.

Clocker Bob.....alive and well

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Fair enough, but I just find it funny, something that has been going on, and to much less scrutiny back before modern broadcasting, is something that means something against this horse, its ridiculous. Like this horse should have an "asterisk" next to his name.

No asterisk here. He's the 13th TC winner. He deserves the accolades.

I am just worried regulators don't have enough tools to prevent collusion by uncoupled entries.

[Jeff P]

It's not as if regulators don't have the tools.

Just about every racing jurisdiction in North America has a rule on the books that calls for each rider to make a good faith effort to earn the best possible placing for his or her mount.

Imo, one of the inherent problems I see with regulatory bodies in a lot of racing jurisdictions is that the regulatory body itself isn't truly independent from the people it is supposed to be regulating.

Imo, for whatever reason, regulatory bodies in North America are completely lacking in fortitude when it comes to calling in a rider and handing down a suspension for failure to make a good faith effort to obtain the best possible placing for a mount.


-jp

.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by jocko699

Yes it is and my comprehension problems are only associated with your posts.

Fair enough reply. Thanks.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

It's not as if regulators don't have the tools.

Just about every racing jurisdiction in North America has a rule on the books that calls for each rider to make a good faith effort to earn the best possible placing for his or her mount.

Imo, one of the inherent problems I see with regulatory bodies in a lot of racing jurisdictions is that the regulatory body itself isn't truly independent from the people it is supposed to be regulating.

Imo, for whatever reason, regulatory bodies in North America are completely lacking in fortitude when it comes to calling in a rider and handing down a suspension for failure to make a good faith effort to obtain the best possible placing for a mount.


-jp

.

That would involve actually doing something other than showing up and collecting a paycheck.

Stewards are jokes. Racing deserves a better way than three stooges at each track.

[GMB@BP]

I for one have a lot of faith in stewards and would welcome their review of the races on paper and trust their judgment on where horses should be placed in a race, how they should be ridden, then immediately after the race post an inquiry sign if a rider did not ride the race in a way they find consistent with the placement of a horse in order to give them the best chance to win.

God knows I see it everyday and have called for bodily harm many times after rides for some of these guys.

Its time to put a stop to these shenanigans.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

No asterisk here. He's the 13th TC winner. He deserves the accolades.

I am just worried regulators don't have enough tools to prevent collusion by uncoupled entries.

Or coupled entries. Again, the trainer and owner couldn't care less if the entry is coupled or uncoupled, so coupling has zero to do with plotting a race as if it's a chess game with multiple pieces for you to maneuver to protect the King.

If this is all fine with everyone, then by God, let's just hand the sport over to the richest, because only they can afford to have multiple entries at the highest levels. They can partner up and get pieces of half the Derby and Classic fields and then play absolute havoc.

It's one thing to be able to afford to do that with only your own money. Maybe occasionally you'll strike gold with two prospects in the same division at the same time, but it won't happen too frequently. But these massive partnerships, buying all these pieces of made horses, they could control races just as we are seeing WinStar and their et al do right now.

I do think that racing's going to have to think about (finally) breaking up the super-trainers and super-owners. Not sure how it can be done, but in other sports, the richest team doesn't get to get all the top draft picks.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I do think that racing's going to have to think about (finally) breaking up the super-trainers and super-owners. Not sure how it can be done, but in other sports, the richest team doesn't get to get all the top draft picks.

Tell that to Roger Penske

[theotherside]

Most of those horses were done when Justify ran the opening quarter in 23.1,Blocking if it occurred helped nothing.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Most of those horses were done when Justify ran the opening quarter in 23.1,Blocking if it occurred helped nothing.

This is an idiotic post.

You realize one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other, right? People need to try and see the big picture here. It is 100%, no 1000%, about a trainer using another of his runners entered in the race to create chaos early, thereby giving up an honest win effort on said chaos maker, in order to benefit his more fancied barnmate. If you, or anyone else, is ok with this being allowed, going unchecked and unpunished, then you deserves the kind of game you'll get.

For the record, I've counted 5 times including the Belmont where Baffert has done this very thing. All in G1 or G2 races. Hardly a coincidence.

Having said all of this, I've stopped giving a shit. If the game itself can tolerate this mickey mouse, and has no interest in being a legitimate sport, then I'll continue to treat the game as a handicapping puzzle with a gambling interest and lower my interest in the "accomplishments" of its horse and people connections.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

This is an idiotic post.

Sometimes this is deserved. In this instance I don't think it was. Come on man.