Paul Moran: Horse Racing customers aren't dead

[The_Knight_Sky]

A dying breed? - Paul Moran (espn)

"There aren't sufficient numbers of racing customers anymore because they died," Carlino said last week during a conference call with investors and analysts during which he suggested that the company's racetracks were little more than a drag on revenue generated by slot machines.

This is, of course, preposterous.

Its Yahoo Finance profile mentions only in passing an involvement in racing: "Penn National Gaming, Inc. and its subsidiaries own and manage gaming and pari-mutuel properties in the United States. As of February 24, 2010, it operated approximately 26,300 gaming machines; 400 table games; and 2,000 hotel rooms in 19 facilities in 15 jurisdictions, including Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Ontario."

Meanwhile, the typical racino patron, according the demographic surveys, is no more youthful than the group pronounced dead by Carlino -- a female over age 60. And while Carlino observed that alternative gaming options do not draw new customers to the pari-mutuel windows, no one has ever suggested that they might.

[Charlie D]

The audience is scattered in the digital age.

Yep. they are in Canada, South America, HK, Europe and every other corner of the earth that has this new invention called the Internet.


Big pond with loads of fish, but yet the " sharp minds" employed by racing block access to the product.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

Big pond with loads of fish, but yet the " sharp minds"
employed by racing block access to the product.

Funny - I was thinking more like Simple Minds.

[YT="Alive and Kicking, 1985 "]ljIQo1OHkTI[/YT]What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?

What you gonna do when the Love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?

Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What's it gonna take to make a dream survive?

Who's got the touch to calm the storm inside?
Who's gonna save you? Alive and Kicking.

[highrider]

Apparently a mindless button thumper is more cost affective, opposed to a handicapper studying a Nine race program...the latter will Kill You!

[lamboguy]

this paul moran guy is right. carlino wants to get rid of the game, he is an enemy to the support, he does everything within his power to scare people away form the game. i would love to put charlino in one of his slot machines and ship him to siberia without earmuffs on for a vacation.

[alhattab]

Moran is generally right in citing the tracks he mentions as places that have wide disparities in age groups. But how is it that Zenyatta has 60,000+ fans a positive? This was the most dynamic horse in some time, yet she can conjure up fewer than half as many fans as the New Jersey Devils hockey club. Now I love the Devils, and they have a loyal, ardent fan base. But it is a local team in a relatively unpopular sport and the fan base is generally regarded as pretty small, but they have 130,000+ fans on Facebook (the NY Rangers have nearly 200,000, and the Montreal Canadiens have nearly 600,000). If anything, Zenyatta's "popularity" is either indicative of a severe lack of interest in racing, or that in fact its fans are truly dead (or at least so old that they don't use computers or Facebook)!

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Moran is generally right in citing the tracks he mentions as places that have wide disparities in age groups. But how is it that Zenyatta has 60,000+ fans a positive? This was the most dynamic horse in some time, yet she can conjure up fewer than half as many fans as the New Jersey Devils hockey club. Now I love the Devils, and they have a loyal, ardent fan base. But it is a local team in a relatively unpopular sport and the fan base is generally regarded as pretty small, but they have 130,000+ fans on Facebook (the NY Rangers have nearly 200,000, and the Montreal Canadiens have nearly 600,000). If anything, Zenyatta's "popularity" is either indicative of a severe lack of interest in racing, or that in fact its fans are truly dead (or at least so old that they don't use computers or Facebook)!

ok, you hit the nail on the head! now we know what the problem is, why can't they do something about crating interest in the game? a reconstruction of the game would help, but when you have guy's like carlino running the show you have no chance to making horseracing a feasable game.

[cj]

Some people aren't going to like this, but horse racing is mostly about gambling, not the horses. If you want to create new fans, you have to make it a better game for the gambler. It has been proven time and time again that great horses aren't going to draw new fans that stay, and certainly not new fans that bet.

Nobody is going to rush to a game where they take over 20% off the top. Many of us that are here have just "stuck around" as take has risen. We wouldn't be here if it were that high years ago.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by cj

Some people aren't going to like this, but horse racing is mostly about gambling, not the horses. If you want to create new fans, you have to make it a better game for the gambler. It has been proven time and time again that great horses aren't going to draw new fans that stay, and certainly not new fans that bet.

Nobody is going to rush to a game where they take over 20% off the top. Many of us that are here have just "stuck around" as take has risen. We wouldn't be here if it were that high years ago.

Absolutely!

You mean to tell me that the "expert" P4 tickets on TVG haven't brought any new players to the game?

I thought everyone who played those tickets was "padding their bankroll".

[fmolf]

Originally Posted by andymays

Absolutely!

You mean to tell me that the "expert" P4 tickets on TVG haven't brought any new players to the game?

I thought everyone who played those tickets was "padding their bankroll".

i second that good post cj.....i really believe over time the racing product will seek its own level...a so called market correction with california leading the way.right now the fla. tracks have the right idea...full fields competitive racing=rise in handle...as well as cal. racings demise due to mismanagement

[Charlie D]

Originally Posted by cj

Some people aren't going to like this, but horse racing is mostly about gambling, not the horses. If you want to create new fans, you have to make it a better game for the gambler. It has been proven time and time again that great horses aren't going to draw new fans that stay, and certainly not new fans that bet.

Nobody is going to rush to a game where they take over 20% off the top. Many of us that are here have just "stuck around" as take has risen. We wouldn't be here if it were that high years ago.

Yes it is and if the image potrayed is one of, this is not a honest game, those gamblers are not going to play. Games they perceive as fairly honest like poker, lotto, slots, trading stocks and shares or racing from Dubia, UK, HK, Australia and so on are at the Top of thier lists.

I think US racing shoots itself in foot on a daily basis with it's continued lack of integrity.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

When the guy from Penn says horse racing customers are dead it simply means he plans on giving horse racing customers nothing in the future. He is not going to lower takeouts. When people don't bet Penn racing with its high takeouts he will simply say nobody wants to bet the races anymore. And then the slots tracks get turned into 100% casinos

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

When the guy from Penn says horse racing customers are dead it simply means he plans on giving horse racing customers nothing in the future. He is not going to lower takeouts. When people don't bet Penn racing with its high takeouts he will simply say nobody wants to bet the races anymore. And then the slots tracks get turned into 100% casinos

*BAR* *BAR* *BAR*

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by cj

Some people aren't going to like this, but horse racing is mostly about gambling, not the horses. If you want to create new fans, you have to make it a better game for the gambler. It has been proven time and time again that great horses aren't going to draw new fans that stay, and certainly not new fans that bet.

Nobody is going to rush to a game where they take over 20% off the top. Many of us that are here have just "stuck around" as take has risen. We wouldn't be here if it were that high years ago.

True. But it isn't a zero-sum game. You can make the game better for the bettor and also seek to attract new fans, who may also figure out how to bet, or bring friends that will. As for converting fans to players, it is tough when that fan who has only shown up for big days naively shows up on a Thursday at Belmont and is treated to an entirely different experience, and wonders why he/she ever went. Imagine if other games/sports worked that way?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by alhattab

True. But it isn't a zero-sum game. You can make the game better for the bettor and also seek to attract new fans, who may also figure out how to bet, or bring friends that will. As for converting fans to players, it is tough when that fan who has only shown up for big days naively shows up on a Thursday at Belmont and is treated to an entirely different experience, and wonders why he/she ever went. Imagine if other games/sports worked that way?

If the racetracks played a bigger role in educating the fans on the handicapping process, maybe more of them would get interested in the betting aspect of this game...and they would then realise that the difference between a Saturday and a Thursday is not as great as it first appears.