Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I do not recall saying this. But I have said yesterday, today and tomorrow do not become or transform from one into another as you do. However even if I grant you this inane language, it is much more likely and supported by evidence to say yesterday "becomes" today at 12 am this morning, and today "becomes" tomorrow tonight at 11:59:59 pm. Specifically determined by how small a time increment used. In other words should the present moment is marked by minutes, seconds or nanoseconds?

Or another measurement?

I asked a rhetorical question. You have never stated where the Present was relative to the Future and the Past.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support your theory that logically Yesterday becomes Today. Yesterday only precedes Today chronologically. And I have explained why we mere mortals with finite, hopelessly time-bound minds think in terms of chronological order.

So, basically, because the Present speeds by us so rapidly, it appears that you deny the existence of the Present. Am I warm here? What's the difference how small the increment may be to measure that fleeting moment. The irrefutable fact is that we only experience Phenomena touching our senses in the Present. Phenomena never touches our senses in the Future or Past in the way it can only do in the Present.

And again, if Today becomes our Tomorrow then we should perfectly know everything that Tomorrow has in store for us since Today is filled with Yesterday's knowledge.

And I still don't understand why you consider the term "becomes" inane language when used with the elements of Time. Shirley, you are not suggesting that Time has no cause, are you? You're not saying that Time never changes, are you? And doesn't change involve making a shift from one thing to another? Or doesn't change involve replacing with another, e.g. the night replaces the day, fall replaces the summer, etc.?

But no, Mr. Hcap, dead, used Time is incapable of becoming anything, let alone Today. Unused Time, Humpty, has a very, very long "shelf life". But once it's used in the Present, it's power is gone virtuallu immediately. We can never go back and re-use that Time once it has passed the through the portal of the Present and speeds along its way to the graveyard of the Past. Only live, unused time has the power to become something. The Future is filled with unused, live time and, therefore, has the power to become Today and in the instant when a future moment becomes the present moment, it still has power for an instant to become the immediate past moment, at which instant it dies.

[hcap]

OY GEVALT! I give up. Your rabbit holes are too dense and winding to deal with today.

Maybe I will deal with them yesterday if I remember today yesterday.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

OY GEVALT! I give up. Your rabbit holes are too dense and winding to deal with today.

Maybe I will deal with them yesterday if I remember today yesterday.

You should give up! You have the dead time of the Past "walking" into Today.

All you need to do is explain to us HOW Yesterday became Yesterday in your loony scheme of Time.

And since you have Yesterday becoming Today, what happens to the time that was spent during all Today (let's say Friday) after Today becomes Tomorrow (Saturday). Where can all of Friday's spent/used time go since you have all the Past flowing into Today?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should give up! You have the dead time of the Past "walking" into Today.

Walking dead? Dracula did you sleep enough today or did the sun wake you in your coffin?

All you need to do is explain to us HOW Yesterday became Yesterday in your loony scheme of Time.

Since timer is a continuous dimension like an endless road, and we define our "position" at the moment as the present, all human defined "yesterdays" are the previous "positions" we were at BEFORE, each. A continuous moment from one to another. From a human point of view, we use language as an approximation and say yesterday "becomes" today or the present,which then "becomes" tomorrow. From a larger point of view, we and the local surrounding environment are "traveling" along this 4 th dimensional road.

And since you have Yesterday becoming Today, what happens to the time that was spent during all Today (let's say Friday) after Today becomes Tomorrow (Saturday). Where can all of Friday's spent/used time go since you have all the Past flowing into Today?

Time does not get "spent" used or "burned up". We move along this road and all yesterdays fade behind us, as all todays and tomorrows are approaching ahead of us.

[hcap]

Let's confine this discussion to one "arrow of time" you always avoid. The causal arrow of time

And let's discuss, since this is a horse racing handicapping blog, determine how past performances are used to inform us of proper betting decisions.

One mored time. How did your mentor Ray Taulbot, develop the angles you used? Do you know?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Walking dead? Dracula did you sleep enough today or did the sun wake you in your coffin?
Since timer is a continuous dimension like an endless road, and we define our "position" at the moment as the present, all human defined "yesterdays" are the previous "positions" we were at BEFORE, each. A continuous moment from one to another. From a human point of view, we use language as an approximation and say yesterday "becomes" today or the present,which then "becomes" tomorrow. From a larger point of view, we and the local surrounding environment are "traveling" along this 4 th dimensional road.
Time does not get "spent" used or "burned up". We move along this road and all yesterdays fade behind us, as all todays and tomorrows are approaching ahead of us.

You see...you contradict yourself and don't even realize it. You say in one breath that "yesterday 'becomes' today or the present" and then say in the next breath that "all our yesterdays fade behind us, as all today's and tomorrows are approaching us. Yet, we instinctively think that our tomorrows are AHEAD of us, and we do not look behind us to see what is ahead of us -- we don't look BACK at the Past to look forward to the Future that is coming to us from the Past.

While Time is a difficult concept sometimes to put into words, nonetheless we constantly use language conventions to describe various aspects of it. Technically, you are right: We don't "spend" or "use" time anymore than the sun actually rises over the eastern horizon. Nevertheless at the same time, we all know that our little patch of "fourth dimensional road" is anything but infinite or indefinite in length. We all know that we have only so many miles to our road -- and sometimes not even that! Therefore, having a keen sense of our own mortality, we all think about making "the best use" of our time. Or not "consuming too much time" to a do a particular chore. Or not "spending our time" frivolously, etc. And the thing about our mortality, is that that is something that is not in our personal control -- anymore than our birth was! This is why a wise person is so conscious of his very short time span upon this earth (which the bible describes as mere "vapor") and constantly thinks in terms of how to best "redeem the time" he has -- that has been allotted to him. Therefore, in a real sense, what we did Yesterday is forever gone. Yesterday has passed away. Yesterday is dead time because we only get to actually use the Present moment one time -- and one time only. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say to "actually make use OF the Present moment of Time".

Conversely, the Future that lies AHEAD us is still unused time, live time -- time to be eventually "consumed" by us when it reaches us in the Present moment.

So, yes, all our Todays and Tomorrows are AHEAD of us, as the Future moves to meet us where we currently are (i.e. the Present.). Therefore, we don't look BACK to the Past to look AHEAD to the Future -- just like we don't look to the West to see the dawn of a new day approaching. We don't look back to Time's graveyard to see a newborn Day that is approaching ahead of us. We don't look back to the END of Yesterday to see the BEGINNING of Today. This is absurdly backwards. The Beginning of all Days comes only from one direction -- from the East. And the End of all Days invariably moves in the opposite direction to the West -- never to rise up again.

I can explain this all to you in many ways but I can't make you understand it, most especially when you refuse to learn what Nature itself teaches all of us.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Let's confine this discussion to one "arrow of time" you always avoid. The causal arrow of time

And let's discuss, since this is a horse racing handicapping blog, determine how past performances are used to inform us of proper betting decisions.

One mored time. How did your mentor Ray Taulbot, develop the angles you used? Do you know?

Fine, we'll do that. But first define for us exactly what you mean by the phrase "The causal arrow of time". What is that precisely and how does it work?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Fine, we'll do that. But first define for us exactly what you mean by the phrase "The causal arrow of time". What is that precisely and how does it work?

I did. You complained it was a dissertation. That somehow a thesis or a document sometimes submitted in support of candidature for an academic degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings, is not valid or truthful. Need I remind you, your 11 part thes is also a "dissertation."

Once again I linked to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

which included many "arrows" of time...


3.1 The thermodynamic arrow of time
3.2 The cosmological arrow of time
3.3 The radiative arrow of time
3.4 The causal arrow of time....
3.5 The particle physics (weak) arrow of time
3.6 The quantum arrow of time
3.7 The quantum source of time
3.8 The psychological/perceptual arrow of time

The Causal....

"A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow"
.................................................. ....................
The physical explanation why cause comes before effect is due to the workings of the thermodynamic arrow of time or entropy.
.
In other words Cause always precedes Effect not withstanding some phenomena on the quantum level

[hcap]

I am also suggesting our respective analogies we use to try and explain time be dropped for now.

I clearly have used a road or line, whereas as best as I can tell you have time as a fluid "flowing" into things.

Neither can be correct.

So my question confined to handicapping is how did your mentor Ray Taulbot, develop the angles you used? Do you know?

Did he draw from experience perhaps as all handicappers do?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I did. You complained it was a dissertation. That somehow a thesis or a document sometimes submitted in support of candidature for an academic degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings, is not valid or truthful. Need I remind you, your 11 part thes is also a "dissertation."

Once again I linked to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

which included many "arrows" of time...


3.1 The thermodynamic arrow of time
3.2 The cosmological arrow of time
3.3 The radiative arrow of time
3.4 The causal arrow of time....
3.5 The particle physics (weak) arrow of time
3.6 The quantum arrow of time
3.7 The quantum source of time
3.8 The psychological/perceptual arrow of time

The Causal....

"A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow"
.................................................. ....................
The physical explanation why cause comes before effect is due to the workings of the thermodynamic arrow of time or entropy.
.
In other words Cause always precedes Effect not withstanding some phenomena on the quantum level

AND NOT WITHSTANDING THAT EFFECTS ALWAYS PRECEDE CAUSES IN INTELLECT.

You might want to remember this.

Again, you conflate events with time. Events have causes. Time has causes. But Time does not cause any event!

What we mere mortals do is try to influence events. We try to affect the outcomes of our plans, plots or schemes.

This is what trainers do as they're racing their equine athletes into condition.
They develop a plan -- a plan, perhaps, that developed over a period of time by experience -- by trial and error.

A trainer might put the horse on a certain feed. He might work out the horse at certain intervals and at certain distances and at certain speeds. He might race his horse at certain intervals, at certain class levels, at certain distances, over certain surfaces, with certain riders, etc. in an attempt to get his pony in good shape in the hopes that the horse will run big in a future race to which the trainer is pointing his charge.

The trainer might do all the things above with great pain and care and due diligence but at the end of the day if the horse win as plans, it CANNOT be said that the trainer caused his horse to win the race! To actually CAUSE something means to effect by command, authority or force. At best all that can be said of the trainer is that his training regime contributed to the favorable outcome of the race. It affected the outcome of today's race. It influenced the outcome -- but none of these things are synonymous with cause! The trainer did not MAKE his horse win.

Conversely, a leader of a nation can plot, plan and scheme a war against a neighboring state, and as a head of state he has the authority to issue the command to used armed force to conquer or subdue that neighboring nation. However, even here the best laid plans of mice and men are often in vain. Things beyond the control of the head of state might ensue to postpone (at the very least) his carefully laid plans. Perhaps something as "mundane" as weather. Or maybe a huge natural disaster, such as an earthquake, strikes his country, or maybe he hears rumors of others coming against him. Or maybe there is a spy in his midst who has forewarned the neighboring state that has, in turn, skillfully planned a lethal counter attack, etc., etc..

But even if the plan to use force comes to fruition, it cannot be said that TIME caused the outbreak of war. It can only be said that events in Time caused the war.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by hcap

I am also suggesting our respective analogies we use to try and explain time be dropped for now.

I clearly have used a road or line, whereas as best as I can tell you have time as a fluid "flowing" into things.

Neither can be correct.

So my question confined to handicapping is how did your mentor Ray Taulbot, develop the angles you used? Do you know?

Did he draw from experience perhaps as all handicappers do?

From Book of Ecclesiastes: the author complains frequently in the book about the monotony of life. The entire passage reads, “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.” (melding religion and horseracing)

I thought Taulbot was great. He was the first real handicapper to influence me. In fact, I still remember and use some of the angles that appeared in American Turf Monthly. He definitely put me on the right track, no pun intended.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What we mere mortals do is try to influence events. We try to affect the outcomes of our plans, plots or schemes.

This is what trainers do as they're racing their equine athletes into condition.

They develop a plan -- a plan, perhaps, that developed over a period of time by experience -- by trial and error.

There ARE both GOOD and BAD TRAINERS,. JOCKEYS AND hndicappers. Do all use only trial and error? Are you saying all knowledge is acquired through only trial and error?

Is that how Ray developed angles that you use? Is that how you were a financially successful professional bettor? Please answer the question. Stop with your nonsense and diversions. Of course we influence events. and more importantly events are influenced by non-human causes.

Walk out in the rain first with an umbrella opened and then with the umbrella closed. The rain, the wind, the weather is for sure not under our control directly, but you do have a choice on whether or not to get wet.

One more time, did Ray learn from experience? You say "perhaps, that developed over a period of time by experience -- by trial and error." Are you admitting we do learn by means other than trial and error? Clarify.

Does anyone learn anything only by trial and error??????

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I am also suggesting our respective analogies we use to try and explain time be dropped for now.

I clearly have used a road or line, whereas as best as I can tell you have time as a fluid "flowing" into things.

Neither can be correct.

So my question confined to handicapping is how did your mentor Ray Taulbot, develop the angles you used? Do you know?

Did he draw from experience perhaps as all handicappers do?

Well, you're half right. Your analogies should be dropped! A road is something that is stationary, fixed and is traveled upon. But time is none of these. Time is fluid because it MOVES. It moves because physical matter (a/k/a cosmic bodies) is in motion through space. That physical matter in motion is always meeting us where we ARE (the Present).

[hcap]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

From Book of Ecclesiastes: the author complains frequently in the book about the monotony of life. The entire passage reads, “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.” (melding religion and horseracing)

I thought Taulbot was great. He was the first real handicapper to influence me. In fact, I still remember and use some of the angles that appeared in American Turf Monthly. He definitely put me on the right track, no pun intended.

Do you use knowledge acquired previously in your attempt to win or is it random betting solely based on trial and error?

The Book of Ecclesiastes is a favorite. No question there are cyclic events and repeating patterns and problems we all face. "All is Vanity" is possibly the most repeating throughout history.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well, you're half right. Your analogies should be dropped! A road is something that is stationary, fixed and is traveled upon. But time is none of these. Time is fluid because it MOVES. It moves because physical matter (a/k/a cosmic bodies) is in motion through space. That physical matter in motion is always meeting us where we ARE (the Present).

Speaking of vanity. Yours' won't stop.

I did say all local events surrounding us and us, MOVE ALONG a metaphorical road or line in a futile attempt to explain time as a dimension.