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Old 01-30-2015, 10:23 PM   #16846
johnhannibalsmith
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Originally Posted by boxcar
I didn't say that. You're putting words into my mouth. But my lot in life has certainly been far better than if I had been born and raised in a poverty-stricken nation. And I did not get to choose that.
You don't think that it is inferred?

Why you? Why not them? Your statement says to me that God's Grace alone decided that outcome for you.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:25 PM   #16847
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Hello by the way Boxcar. I don't chat much with you anymore but only because a lot of this stuff is read-only for me. I have to jump at my limited chances.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:52 PM   #16848
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
Frost was brilliant.
Yes, but this poem is the best I know and reverberates with spirituality.

If—
By Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Old 01-31-2015, 01:51 AM   #16849
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"If" is a tremendous, and oft quoted, poem.
Kipling wrote it to his son intending to impart to him stoicism and humility.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:02 AM   #16850
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
"If" is a tremendous, and oft quoted, poem.
Kipling wrote it to his son intending to impart to him stoicism and humility.
The part about risking all your winnings on one shot has provided me with much solace on many a sleepless night.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:08 AM   #16851
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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
Then obviously you don't understand the situation.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:13 AM   #16852
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I started reading the Bible last Monday. Thursday morning I completed Genesis. I think I can finish it by the end of May.
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Old 01-31-2015, 04:17 AM   #16853
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I started reading the Bible last Monday. Thursday morning I completed Genesis. I think I can finish it by the end of May.
Why are you wasting your time?
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:51 AM   #16854
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
You don't think that it is inferred?

Why you? Why not them? Your statement says to me that God's Grace alone decided that outcome for you.
Because it was in God's eternal purpose. I have my role to play on His stage; they have theirs. You have yours, etc. This doesn't mean I'm any better than them or you. If I was, then it could not be said that God's grace accounts for my salvation or my station in life. Grace, by definition, is unmerited, undeserved favor.

"For whom He foreknew He predestined...."

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. And I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:00 AM   #16855
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
Hello by the way Boxcar. I don't chat much with you anymore but only because a lot of this stuff is read-only for me. I have to jump at my limited chances.
Well...feel free to jump in the ring at any time. I don't bite.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:04 AM   #16856
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Originally Posted by Actor
I started reading the Bible last Monday. Thursday morning I completed Genesis. I think I can finish it by the end of May.
You are officially on my prayer list.

Is this the first time ever you're attempting to read it straight through?
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:07 AM   #16857
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Well...the important thing is that once you wake up you will realize that your perception of the "arrow of time" was but a bad dream. And then you might even thank me for waking you up so that you could realize the error of those mad scientists' ways.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:04 AM   #16858
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Originally Posted by boxcar
Well...feel free to jump in the ring at any time. I don't bite.
You know it isn't that. I don't like gang warfare. You do fine, well, sort of, but in that sense you do. Still, I'm the guy far out on the radius six people deep throwing a rock or a really big bottlecap on most of these subjects. In other words, pointless and gratuitous.

But, I find it annoying for some reason when people pin all of their success or good fortune on God or his grace. It implies nothing else influenced those outcomes. Which suggests deliberate misfortune or preference or something. You got the good assignment thanks to Grace and without it you would have gotten the crap assignment, but the guy that did get the crap assignment, well, that's grace too, but it's different. It never computes to me. You're probably okay with that, but a lot of quasi-theologians spreading the good word get all tripped up there.

I don't generally get annoyed by people's beliefs since rarely do I cross them in any way that even gets near me. But this one... man, take some pride. If you aren't going to cuss God for those four fumbles, don't suddenly pretend he's putting the ball in your hands himself when you do finally manage to hold on to the thing. Thank him for the great physique or something. You took it from there.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:56 AM   #16859
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Originally Posted by boxcar
Well...the important thing is that once you wake up you will realize that your perception of the "arrow of time" was but a bad dream. And then you might even thank me for waking you up so that you could realize the error of those mad scientists' ways.
I guess God graciously also gave you tons of humongous humility, to balance out your God given raging monstrous ego.

Lucky us.

I mean we are so fortunate to have you as an alarm clock.
No matter which direction "your" hands may turn
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:02 AM   #16860
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
You know it isn't that. I don't like gang warfare. You do fine, well, sort of, but in that sense you do. Still, I'm the guy far out on the radius six people deep throwing a rock or a really big bottlecap on most of these subjects. In other words, pointless and gratuitous.

But, I find it annoying for some reason when people pin all of their success or good fortune on God or his grace. It implies nothing else influenced those outcomes. Which suggests deliberate misfortune or preference or something. You got the good assignment thanks to Grace and without it you would have gotten the crap assignment, but the guy that did get the crap assignment, well, that's grace too, but it's different. It never computes to me. You're probably okay with that, but a lot of quasi-theologians spreading the good word get all tripped up there.
But why do you find that annoying? If it weren't for God' common grace and eternal decree, you would not be here in the first place. ("For in Him we live and move and exist..." c.f. Act 17:28). I think what you find "annoying" is that God is the Ultimate Cause of all things. Therefore, this means that we really can't (or certainly shouldn't) take credit for anything. Instead, every rational moral, personal creature should bow his knee before His creator in adoration and thanksgiving for his Goodness. But, of course, fallen mankind really has a tough job doing this. In fact, so tough that no one can do this apart from God's saving, effectual grace.

Quote:
I don't generally get annoyed by people's beliefs since rarely do I cross them in any way that even gets near me. But this one... man, take some pride. If you aren't going to cuss God for those four fumbles, don't suddenly pretend he's putting the ball in your hands himself when you do finally manage to hold on to the thing. Thank him for the great physique or something. You took it from there.
But God gives grace only to the humble; for He resists the proud.

As far as the football analogy goes, the "fumbles" in life are due to man's imperfections, not God's. But when a person finally comes to his senses and realizes this truth (by God's grace!), this is when he'll turn to God to seek his help. And when he receives that help, he shouldn't be thankful to God?

Try to understand this fundamental truth: God made all his rational, personal, moral beings to depend upon Him for all things. Loving, trusting and obeying Him is how God is glorified, which is man's purpose in life. But of course, no man comes into this world having such a desire; for all of us have followed in Adam's footsteps in open rebellion against our Creator.
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