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Old 03-14-2018, 08:19 PM   #106
reckless
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Apparently those left-wing moonbats at the Wall Street Journal are Trump haters too. From an editorial about the tariffs at that liberal rag:

https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2...rs-warn-folly/
Actually the WSJ are Trump haters ... but to the Trump haters, who cares?

While the WSJ are not left wing moonbats, especially in the manner of which you snark, they are for those same unfair and unfettered 'free' trade deals that you agree with and support.

They are the media front group who acts as de-facto lobbyists for the Fortune 500 multinationals and the local US Chambers of Commerce.

The editors of the WSJ, along with their Big Business corporate cronies (and add those politicians they own as well) never eat $1 Happy Meals, I assure you.

Sorry I can't say the same thing for the many millions of working class American citizens that had their jobs outsourced overseas, their wages cut or left stagnant at best for many years now and their tax burden raised to pay for the huge national debt caused primarily by trade deficits.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:42 AM   #107
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A good article from the Mises Institute: "Manufacturing Jobs Are Overrated".

Quote:
One of the reasons that Donald Trump gives for slapping new protectionist tariffs on steel and aluminum is that it will create manufacturing jobs, and by extension, greatly enhance income growth and standards of living in the United States.

Trump is capitalizing on an enduring myth of American economic history in which it is believed that declines in manufacturing jobs are necessarily accompanied by drops in standards of living as well.

What is often forgotten, however, is that manufacturing jobs, in proportion to the population overall, dropped significantly from the end of World War II through the 1950s and 1960s. And yet, during this time, real median incomes in the United States increased.
The rest of the article is here:
https://mises.org/wire/manufacturing-jobs-are-overrated
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:22 AM   #108
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their tax burden raised to pay for the huge national debt caused primarily by trade deficits.
The huge national debt is caused by politicians spending more money than is taken in through taxes. That is called a fiscal deficit. It has nothing to do with trade or the trade deficit.

And the trade deficit is not a bad thing. A trade deficit means that we buy more goods from foreign countries than they buy from us. But that also results in a capital surplus for us, which means that foreigners invest more money in our country than we invest in theirs. Which creates jobs for Americans.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:15 AM   #109
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I just wish the tariffs were higher on aluminum. I hope the aluminum tariff helps run Chinese 6061 aluminum out of the USA. The stuff is poor quality and difficult to work with for what I use aluminum for. Over the 3 decades I have been self employed it has gotten an increased market share. A lot of suppliers sell Chinese that used to only sell domestic. Problem is the smaller sizes of raw stock are not marked by the mill so you have to trust the supplier. I can take one cut and tell if the stuff is Chinese crap or not.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:48 AM   #110
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I added a statement of all of my POs for aluminum and steel "No foreign materials accepted." I then had a list of approved US suppliers/mills that had to be used androvide certification.

For years, every tool we bought from China was substandard, inccomplete, of just plain screwed up and required rework/repairs before we could ship to our customer.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:49 AM   #111
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With a guys like Trump running the narrative who needs facts?

If I remember correctly Clocker brought up our service exports in this country and not a peep from the tariff folks.

Trump keeps making a wildly misleading claim about trade between the US and Canada

Quote:
"We have large trade deficits with Mexico and Canada," Trump said. "NAFTA, which is under renegotiation right now, has been a bad deal for U.S.A. Massive relocation of companies & jobs. Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum will only come off if new & fair NAFTA agreement is signed."

...

According to the US Trade Representative, the US actually maintained a $12.5 billion trade surplus with Canada in 2016, the most recent data available.

The US did run a goods deficit of $12.1 billion, but it made up for it with a $24.6 billion surplus in services trade, such as intellectual property and travel.

Even looking strictly at goods, the deficit is not large compared with years past. Commerce Department data shows that the 2016 deficit was the smallest since 1993 and well down from a peak of $78.5 billion in 2005.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:09 AM   #112
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A POTUS not telling the truth!

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Old 03-15-2018, 11:10 AM   #113
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I added a statement of all of my POs for aluminum and steel "No foreign materials accepted." I then had a list of approved US suppliers/mills that had to be used androvide certification.

For years, every tool we bought from China was substandard, inccomplete, of just plain screwed up and required rework/repairs before we could ship to our customer.

That doesn't work for me with suppliers that mix their materials on the small unmarked sizes. There can be Chinese and USA 3/8" round bars in the same trough on a rack unbundled. If you ask for certs they will just send you a copy of the mill certs for the last shipment they received. The Capitol of the Confederacy is horrible for sourcing materials, but I have to play the hand I am dealt. Back when I was in California the suppliers were good about not mixing materials that were not marked, not the case here. I can't be competitive on a lot of jobs if I have the material trucked in as freight and handling costs have went up way past the rate of inflation. Most of the time I am stuck buying locally.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:21 AM   #114
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I added a statement of all of my POs for aluminum and steel "No foreign materials accepted." I then had a list of approved US suppliers/mills that had to be used androvide certification.

For years, every tool we bought from China was substandard, inccomplete, of just plain screwed up and required rework/repairs before we could ship to our customer.

I know places that will outsource to low end Chinese shops and figure they are still money ahead even figuring the cost of 100% inspection, throwing away all bad parts and reworking the ones that are salvageable.

A place a friend worked in California got rid of a whole department that made their simple electrical contacts and outsourced them to China knowing full well from samples the Chinese shop had quality issues. They figured they still save 10-20% by outsourcing and paying a group of people $12 an hour to sort out the bad ones using a microscope and micrometers. My friend was a tool and die maker. Instead of having a full tool and die shop they outsourced to China and had my friend and a helper rework all the out of spec items.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:32 PM   #115
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The EU will meet next week to seek exemption. In the meantime they are assembling a block to strike back should they not receive one...

With friends like Trump who needs enemies right...?

These are our allies.
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:21 PM   #116
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I know places that will outsource to low end Chinese shops and figure they are still money ahead even figuring the cost of 100% inspection, throwing away all bad parts and reworking the ones that are salvageable.

A place a friend worked in California got rid of a whole department that made their simple electrical contacts and outsourced them to China knowing full well from samples the Chinese shop had quality issues. They figured they still save 10-20% by outsourcing and paying a group of people $12 an hour to sort out the bad ones using a microscope and micrometers. My friend was a tool and die maker. Instead of having a full tool and die shop they outsourced to China and had my friend and a helper rework all the out of spec items.
We are going to be in sorry sape for mold-makers. That is NOT something you take a two year course and go about and do.
We are not going to be able to react to a crisis in the future. We will be forever out of the tooling business without trained
mold makers at our service.

If you need shit, go to China - they have all you can use.

btw, did you ever run in tot Chinese NEw Year Syndrome?
Half the people working our your project will not come back to work after the February shut down and your deadlines are now moot.

Whatever the costs, being self-reliant in EVERYTHING outweighs all the negatives.
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Old 03-15-2018, 05:58 PM   #117
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Whatever the costs, being self-reliant in EVERYTHING outweighs all the negatives.
No it doesn't.

Being free to do what you are best and most productive at is.

Break it down to the ridiculous... you aren't completely self-reliant. Even if you were you wouldn't be nearly as happy.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:04 PM   #118
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Break it down to the ridiculous... you aren't completely self-reliant. Even if you were you wouldn't be nearly as happy.
True, he wouldn't have the joy of grumbling about the incompetents he has to deal with.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:10 PM   #119
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I'm talking about the country being self reliant.
Being dependent on other nations is like the sheeple being dependent on the government.

I'll gladly pay more for stuff made here if it means jobs for Americans and more self-reliance overall.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:38 PM   #120
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I'm talking about the country being self reliant.
Being dependent on other nations is like the sheeple being dependent on the government.

I'll gladly pay more for stuff made here if it means jobs for Americans and more self-reliance overall.
No you won't because some stuff we don't produce here cheaply. Even so... to say you would means you're okay at putting yourself at a financial disadvantage against the rest of the world.

Secondly, at this point I'm getting really tired of this "more jobs for Americans" trope.

We are at 4% unemployment with a shrinking workforce. Who in the hell is going to fill them?

The way you people talk this place is in the shitter... until you remind us how great it's going...

It's going pretty great you are right... Why regulate?
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