Do high purses equal success? I don't think so.

[Stillriledup]

Is it just me or does almost every word uttered by 'higher ups' in racing seem to revolve around giving more money to horsemen via higher purses to keep the game alive? You hear constantly, "if we can only raise purses, we can get better horses and with the better horses, the bettors will flock to the product"

I guess they see the massive betting pools of the Ky Derby and BC and assume that its the great races that attract betting dollars?

There are very few graded races in the country compared to the meat and potatoes type horses who grind out a living for the bettors every day. Racetrack execs don't realize that the takeout is 20% blended for a 3k claimer or a million dollar claimer.

Also, no one has ever told me why all the slots machine money goes directly to purses. Why not give some of that money to the bettors by adding money to betting pools? Why not say, "instead of giving this particular 20k to the purses, we're going to put that 20k into the 3rd race exacta pool and start that pool with a 20k carryover"

Some of these small tracks are running 5k claimers for purses of well over 10k. Win ONE RACE and you've basically paid for the horse and have some money left over for a nice night out on the town for 12 people, limo included.

I think this just goes back to the deep rooted belief by higher ups in this game that horseplayers are total "slime"bags and deserve to be treated like pond scum.

I guess i'll never get it.

[rastajenk]

No, I don't suppose you ever will.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Studies show that if you double purses, handle goes up only 6%.
Dropping takeout has a much more positive affect on increasing handle, and the horseman's bottom line.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Stillriledup:

Obviously, not all of the slot machine money goes to purses, but I think I know what you meant there in the context of the rest of the post -- and I agree with you one-hundred percent. Yes, I am a card carrying member of the local HBPA and it is a travesty.

Where we divert paths is how to use the slot revenue. I'm not disagreeing that something creative like supplementing a pool would be a better idea than those currently implemented, but if racing was serious about surviving, in my opinion, the slot revenue would be used as investment capital into the product itself.

My mantra on the subject has been to utilize revenues to justify meaningful takeout reductions, using the slot subsidies to offset the short-term shortfalls from take reductions. Additionally, slot revenues should subsidize top-shelf testing protocols, barn area security, track maintenance, and general pool integrity standards. Smaller symptoms of racing's decline to be dealt with - promotion, goodwill, rescue and retirement efforts - these should be on the radar as well.

If there are surpluses, by all means, pump up purses. But, if you deal with the aforementioned as a priority, purses will steadily climb in all likelihood, the gradual ascent helping to actually increase the true value of those purses. Obviously, investing in the core product and using the slot revenue to that end creates a much more stable product, capable of surviving and hopefully thriving over the long term.

Instead, what we have are horsemen with no core product and big purses, with a gaming operator in charge of the show. As it is in most of these jurisdictions a few years into this production, remove the slot subsidies and the core product is not going to sustain itself. It is welfare through and through - it keeps you going for as long as you can continue to collect it, but unless you take advantage of the opportunity to advance yourself and position yourself to self-sustainment - the potential for collapse is one legislative maneuver away.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Is it just me or does almost every word uttered by 'higher ups' in racing seem to revolve around giving more money to horsemen via higher purses to keep the game alive? You hear constantly, "if we can only raise purses, we can get better horses and with the better horses, the bettors will flock to the product"

I guess they see the massive betting pools of the Ky Derby and BC and assume that its the great races that attract betting dollars?

There are very few graded races in the country compared to the meat and potatoes type horses who grind out a living for the bettors every day. Racetrack execs don't realize that the takeout is 20% blended for a 3k claimer or a million dollar claimer.

Also, no one has ever told me why all the slots machine money goes directly to purses. Why not give some of that money to the bettors by adding money to betting pools? Why not say, "instead of giving this particular 20k to the purses, we're going to put that 20k into the 3rd race exacta pool and start that pool with a 20k carryover"

Some of these small tracks are running 5k claimers for purses of well over 10k. Win ONE RACE and you've basically paid for the horse and have some money left over for a nice night out on the town for 12 people, limo included.

I think this just goes back to the deep rooted belief by higher ups in this game that horseplayers are total "slime"bags and deserve to be treated like pond scum.

I guess i'll never get it.

Stillriledup,

Good Question!

I can only speak about California, and no, it is not your imagination this time.

For the last three decades or so,the Regulators(CHRB) have gone along with the requests of the horsemen,their organizations(TOC etc.),racetracks and their lobbyists exclusively (rubber stamp), gaining higher purses,higher take out, more silly, expensive exotic bets(4 horse trifectas,6 horse supers,etc.) ,uncoupling of entries,carryovers and so forth, that tend to make horse racing more of a game of chance rather than a game of skill as far as wagering is concerned.

Racing Forms (DRF)sales are way down,because who needs them?

Handicapping is not necessary for the big carryover payouts, just a big wallet and a little luck.

30 years ago if you had a claimer type horse, you could figure you would win your way out if you won three races with him. Today, you can get out with one win.

That would seem to bode well for most horsemen, but it does not seem to be enough... because everytime purses go up, costs go up. If the moderate price horseman is successful..he spends more to get a faster horse to compete with the big boys. Horsemen have succeeded in getting small fields with little competition and up to $400.00 "appearance fees"... it is never enough. Many horsemen can not tell you where the purses are generated from, they just want more.

The racetracks thought if they introduced more exotic bets,they would draw more fans,and besides they could mark them up with higher take out, and still advertise the take is competitive, if you only bet win, place or show.

They have been wrong at every turn.

They only succeeded in taking the fan base dollars faster, and no one could win anymore, so the fan base grew smaller, and migrated to other venues with a better deal for them.

How did this happen?

The CHRB is dominated by licensed horsemen,all members of the TOC also. They make rules and regulations that seem good for their brothers and the racetracks that they are in partnership with as the producers of the show... and they both have paid representatives at every meeting advising the Board what they want next. I am advised there are 183 organizations across the U.S. and most are supported directly or indirectly by the customers of racing,by the take out.

The missing link here is the players or customer representatives. No customer organization is funded by their own take out to provide input to the regulators... and the regulators are horsemen, not sportsmen (people with no direct ties to the industry), so they trust and favor their own . This creates an unbalanced financial stool, and the players are on the short leg.

Give everyone a chance to win, (with no guarantee) and our game will rebound... the people love horse racing.

rwwupl

[46zilzal]

I continue to be flabbergasted when I see maiden races at Woodbine have purses over 60K.

[Charlie D]

In the Monmouth Park reshaping has there been any mention of adjusting take out rates???

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

In the Monmouth Park reshaping has there been any mention of adjusting take out rates???

No chance any lowering of them will occur.

I can imagine with their supposed "improved product" that a raise on their already high host fee can be expected. I would almost guess they will ask for Tracknet levels.

From what I've read, they think their live handle could triple and that total handle will go up 66%. Are you kidding me? Who is they and how are the horsemen going for this if that is what they are counting on for the success of the new purse structure?

[Charlie D]

So it looks like NJ reshape is just more "attendance money"( rwwupl) for horsemen and a missed opportunity to do something really positive by those that run the show.


Decent purses, clean competitive racing with lowish TO would have been a better seller as most who have an interest in sport would benefit from that kind of reshape.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

So it looks like NJ reshape is just more "attendance money"( rwwupl) for horsemen...

What do you mean by "attendance money"? Gate receipts, concessions, program sales, etc.?

[Charlie D]

as in rwwupl's "apperance money" post John.

I may be wrong mind, but thats what i think will happen.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

What do you mean by "attendance money"? Gate receipts, concessions, program sales, etc.?

I don't think any track even comes close to maxing out "attendance money" for an entire meet like Del Mar. I take the term "attendance money" to mean everthing someone going to the track spends money on.

They hold concerts every week. If you want to have a good time there and buy a few rounds for people and spend the day you need an extra thousand bucks sometimes besides your betting money.

[twindouble]

Excellent question and great responces. Felt good to read it and not disagree. Just one little thing stood out, "Racing Forms (DRF)sales are way down,because who needs them? Well a big thing to me, no racing form no more playing the horses for me. (

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well, my question basically amounted to ascertaining how those receipts relate to revenue to horsemen. I'm not sure that I understood what Charlie was referring to with the phrase, so I asked for clarification. I'm still not sure that I follow, but I guess my initial perception wasn't quite what was intended. I can't think of a track that offers revenue to horsemen from any stream other than handle (or gaming subsidies), but would like to be educated if I am overlooking something.

[Charlie D]

My fault John, should have used same term as rwwupl did. Aplogies for the