How To Save Horse Racing

[46zilzal]

Bravo.....Central control and coordination is long overdue. I would have thought that the U. of Arizona symposia would have addressed this long ago, but nope.

[Greyfox]

D.S. Is absolutely right.
I've said the same for years. Get Professional!!!!
A National Organization coordinating tracks and races, a commissioner over seeing discipline, promotion etc. are required.
Wouldn't it be nice to see races coordinated in terms of presentation?
Belmont 1200 Calder 12:10 Churchill 12:20 Phil 12:30 (repeat cycle).
But...just like the take out problem - It ain't gonna happen.
Every State has their own gaming rules and racing commissions.
Nothing less than some type of federally sponsored restructuring needs to be.
As it is now you've got a jockey banned at Tampa, riding a State or two over.
That fact that different jurisdictions honored Asmussen's suspension was good, but not due to National Coordination.
Alas, shouting it from the rooftops just makes me Walter Mitty. A dreamer.
Ain't gonna happen.

[Marlin]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Alas, shouting it from the rooftops just makes me Walter Mitty. A dreamer.
Ain't gonna happen.

And that is unfortunate. Racetracks and horsemen live for today and not tomorrow. Lack of foresight has been what has caused this. Lack of foresight will continue to haunt this game.

[K9Pup]

Originally Posted by betovernetcapper

Great thread.

What's amazing to me is that selling the signal to PTC would allow tracks to keep their current take out and they are reluctant to sell the signal.

My understanding is that the host track only gets about 3% take when bets are made elsewhere. So PTC get 17-20%, the track only 3.

[Cangamble]

Never say never. Look at a track like Fort Erie where over half of the purse money comes from slots. It used to be 3/4's. They do a regular handle of 600k on a Sunday, and maybe 1 million on Mondays and Tuesdays, but usually on 100k is from on track. Most of it comes from other places where they only make ?2.5-5%? for their signal. Sure they also make a big chunk (the takeout minus the signal fee) from bets made at Fort Erie on other tracks (maybe 50-100k a day, I'm guessing).

My point is that many smaller tracks are living on slots plus the majority of bets at 2.5-5% commission.

Even the big tracks are accepting those low amounts. They used to think it was free money, but really it isn't.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

My point is that many smaller tracks are living on slots plus the majority of bets at 2.5-5% commission.

They used to think it was free money, but really it isn't.

If they wouldn't get a nickel from outside with no sent signal, what else could you call it but "free money?"

[Cangamble]

It is a tradeoff. They let someone have their signal and they take another's signal.

[Premier Turf Club]

Originally Posted by K9Pup

My understanding is that the host track only gets about 3% take when bets are made elsewhere. So PTC get 17-20%, the track only 3.

That 3% number is pretty much ancient history. The bigger tracks are charging 6-8%, the smaller ones 4-5%. More importantly, the tracks pricing model has driven GIGANTIC amounts of handle to the illegal bookmakers. The consultants we hired to look at that issue last fall determined that amount was approximately $4.0 billion. We've heard that with the signals wars, that handle is up by nearly 20%, meaning bookmakers will do approximately $5.0 billion this year. That number doesn't include the betting exchanges.

Even using a blended 4%, that translates into $200,000,000 in increased signal fees. IMHO, at this rate the signal leakage will put the industry out of business within five years. For some tracks, it could be sooner that.

And for the record, we don't make anywhere near 17-20%. We've got at least 5% in overhead. It also ignores the fact that our model is based upon returning a % of the take back to the players to bring their money BACK INTO THE POOLS. Any rewards we provide end up get re-wagered, increasing handle even further.

There's an old saying we like to use on the trading floor "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered."

[gIracing]

speaking of, I have a question that will probably sound stupid, but It's time I ask. I literarly dont' know. it's too confusing


when I make a bet say on TVG for instance. does that go into a it's OWN pool or does it go into the same pool as the track? I know you get paid track odds, but is it actually the same pool?

[Dave Schwartz]

It goes to the track, into the same pool that everyone else is betting into.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

That 3% number is pretty much ancient history. The bigger tracks are charging 6-8%, the smaller ones 4-5%. More importantly, the tracks pricing model has driven GIGANTIC amounts of handle to the illegal bookmakers. The consultants we hired to look at that issue last fall determined that amount was approximately $4.0 billion. We've heard that with the signals wars, that handle is up by nearly 20%, meaning bookmakers will do approximately $5.0 billion this year. That number doesn't include the betting exchanges.

Ian,

I couldn’t agree more.

I think you’re the first I’ve heard who put a realistic # on that figure and I honestly think that might even be light. The pie is so much larger than the powers at be can fathom, if only we could appoint you czar our pools would soar.

[gIracing]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

It goes to the track, into the same pool that everyone else is betting into.

making sure, that's what I thought.

[TrackManSam]

Rebate Shops have just about done as much to kill this game as anything. They can offer the big rebates and the tracks can't because the tracks have one strike against them the rebate shops don't. It's called OVERHEAD!

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by DanG

Ian,

I couldn’t agree more.

The pie is so much larger than the powers at be can fathom, if only we could appoint you czar our pools would soar.

How? How could the pools soar?

[46zilzal]

I see all of these stunts. We had a hole in one golf deal two weeks ago, give aways, diaper derby, hat contests......In the long run that doesn't bring out bettors.

The product has to be better, with education for the people wagering their money.