Sports Wagering one step closer in NJ....

[ultracapper]

Gambling generates massive interest in football, both Saturday and Sunday. Neither the NCAA or the NFL has any problems with bets being made on their product. Most statements made by either the NCAA or NFL concerning gambling is an effort to pander to this interest or that interest. Puritanical, moralistic horsesh*t. If there was no moralistic backlash concerning gambling, the NFL would tailor the product to it much more than they already have.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

Gambling generates massive interest in football, both Saturday and Sunday. Neither the NCAA or the NFL has any problems with bets being made on their product. Most statements made by either the NCAA or NFL concerning gambling is an effort to pander to this interest or that interest. Puritanical, moralistic horsesh*t. If there was no moralistic backlash concerning gambling, the NFL would tailor the product to it much more than they already have.

The overwhelming majority of people who watch NFL games or college football games have no money on them. It is entertainment to them just like going to a movie or watching NCIS. The next thing you are going to be claiming is that the reason NCIS is so popular is that people are betting on whether Tony or McGee will figure out who the killer is first.

[badcompany]

I don't know if this is true, but I've heard NJ Horsemen have been lobbying to get a cut of the profits from the Merry Go Round industry.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The overwhelming majority of people who watch NFL games or college football games have no money on them. It is entertainment to them just like going to a movie or watching NCIS. The next thing you are going to be claiming is that the reason NCIS is so popular is that people are betting on whether Tony or McGee will figure out who the killer is first.

According to research from the Fantasy Sports Trade Association, 33 million Americans participate in Fantasy Football and the industry adds about 2 million new players every year. That is just a small piece of the big pie!

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by onefast99

According to research from the Fantasy Sports Trade Association, 33 million Americans participate in Fantasy Football and the industry adds about 2 million new players every year. That is just a small piece of the big pie!

I am a fantasy football player and I can assure you that the number is way too high. It is hard to find a league that is local. You have to play with strangers online. I am in a league with a former boss, he is the only one in the league I know. The league with 10 teams has players in 5 states.
Almost none of the college football fans play fantasy football on college, yet millions go to the games and millions watch it every Saturday in the fall. Explain that! Same with college hoops. No fantasy players.
Don't you find it a wee bit strange that the sports has legal betting on its sport is dying on the vine. They are in such bad shape that they are trying legalize betting on other sports so they can get a cut. How desperate is that?

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I am a fantasy football player and I can assure you that the number is way too high. It is hard to find a league that is local. You have to play with strangers online. I am in a league with a former boss, he is the only one in the league I know. The league with 10 teams has players in 5 states.
Almost none of the college football fans play fantasy football on college, yet millions go to the games and millions watch it every Saturday in the fall. Explain that! Same with college hoops. No fantasy players.
Don't you find it a wee bit strange that the sports has legal betting on its sport is dying on the vine. They are in such bad shape that they are trying legalize betting on other sports so they can get a cut. How desperate is that?

Maybe it is due to the fact there is no salary cap on the college game. I enjoy college football even with the new playoff system for 2014 but I wouldn't spend anytime doing a fantasy football team with college players as I barely know enough about good solid NFL players!

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The overwhelming majority of people who watch NFL games or college football games have no money on them.

That's true.
Quite a few more would, however, if they didn't have to break the law to bet.

So, you think legalized sports wagering will be the end of horse racing?
I can't agree with that.

What would likely happen is that quite a few more marginal/unprofitable
tracks would shut their gates. That is likely to happen eventually, anyway.
It might just speed up the process.

Major racing venues would remain strong.
They provide good entertainment with a solid product in large markets.
Those tracks will be around long after you, and I, are gone.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The overwhelming majority of people who watch NFL games or college football games have no money on them. It is entertainment to them just like going to a movie or watching NCIS. The next thing you are going to be claiming is that the reason NCIS is so popular is that people are betting on whether Tony or McGee will figure out who the killer is first.

I'm not claiming it's the primary reason people watch football. Football has an appeal that reaches deep psychological levels. But you can't deny that gambling adds another layer of interest that the powers that be can't ignore, nor want to discourage. Do you believe that either the NCAA or the NFL would like to abolish gambling on their game? They pander to it with everything from the timing and importance of their injury reports to their support of the media coverage that pays heed to it.

Remember when we were kids, and the old bullsh*t excuse for injury reports were so the ticket buying public could be sure their favorite player would be on the field that week? The NFL has even had to defend the "wink and nod" it has afforded gambling, and they did it with no objection.

[bks]

Robert Goren wrote:

If it isn't property rights, then I can open an ADW and not give MP or any other race track one red cent for the action I take on their races.

I don't think so. ADWs commingle wagers. You'd need the participation of the track and state for that to happen - the state, which has an acknowledged regulatory role in horse racing, a role that is expressly denied in the NJ law and which the NJ Division of Gaming Enforcement has confirmed.

Further, and more importantly, MP is in the GAMBLING BUSINESS. Your proposed ADW would be a direct competitor. The NFL is not in the gambling business (so it says), and so sports betting does not compete with any of its core business interests.

The cases aren't analogous.

Remember you don't have to convince me. NJ has to convince the judge(s).

If only it were this easy. The judges of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals is responsible for NJ taking this latest course of legal action. It was the Appeals court who signaled to NJ that they could have wagering if they went about it this way. They are ALREADY convinced.

Watch what happens if the 3rd Circuit sticks to its guns once this case is before it. Will the Supreme Court not hear the case? They refused to hear it when NJ wanted them to. Bet your ass they hear it this time, if NJ wins its appeal of Shipp's likely decision in favor of the leagues.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by bks

I don't think so. ADWs commingle wagers. You'd need the participation of the track and state for that to happen - the state, which has an acknowledged regulatory role in horse racing, a role that is expressly denied in the NJ law and which the NJ Division of Gaming Enforcement has confirmed.
I could sit up my own pools.
Further, and more importantly, MP is in the GAMBLING BUSINESS. Your proposed ADW would be a direct competitor. The NFL is not in the gambling business (so it says), and so sports betting does not compete with any of its core business interests. You could have fooled me. I thought they were in the business of paying out money to horsemen. The money from sports wagering(if they get it) is going to go to the horsemen.


The cases aren't analogous.


If only it were this easy. The judges of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals is responsible for NJ taking this latest course of legal action. It was the Appeals court who signaled to NJ that they could have wagering if they went about it this way. They are ALREADY convinced. That is not what happened. They ruled on one part of the law.

Watch what happens if the 3rd Circuit sticks to its guns once this case is before it. Will the Supreme Court not hear the case? They refused to hear it when NJ wanted them to. Bet your ass they hear it this time, if NJ wins its appeal of Shipp's likely decision in favor of the leagues.

I hope that answers some of your responses.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

I'm not claiming it's the primary reason people watch football. Football has an appeal that reaches deep psychological levels. But you can't deny that gambling adds another layer of interest that the powers that be can't ignore, nor want to discourage. Do you believe that either the NCAA or the NFL would like to abolish gambling on their game? They pander to it with everything from the timing and importance of their injury reports to their support of the media coverage that pays heed to it.

Remember when we were kids, and the old bullsh*t excuse for injury reports were so the ticket buying public could be sure their favorite player would be on the field that week? The NFL has even had to defend the "wink and nod" it has afforded gambling, and they did it with no objection.

If nothing else, they believe that they need to take a public stand against gambling on their product. They believe if their sport becomes attached to gambling in a real sense, their sport will suffer. A "wink and nod" is one thing, but a public connection is another. They do not want their fans to be looked at as "degenerate gamblers" like horse racing fans are.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I am a fantasy football player and I can assure you that the number is way too high. It is hard to find a league that is local. You have to play with strangers online. I am in a league with a former boss, he is the only one in the league I know. The league with 10 teams has players in 5 states.
Almost none of the college football fans play fantasy football on college, yet millions go to the games and millions watch it every Saturday in the fall. Explain that! Same with college hoops. No fantasy players.
Don't you find it a wee bit strange that the sports has legal betting on its sport is dying on the vine. They are in such bad shape that they are trying legalize betting on other sports so they can get a cut. How desperate is that?

I'm embarrassingly in a 16 team fantasy league, all local with fairly large stakes.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

If nothing else, they believe that they need to take a public stand against gambling on their product. They believe if their sport becomes attached to gambling in a real sense, their sport will suffer. A "wink and nod" is one thing, but a public connection is another. They do not want their fans to be looked at as "degenerate gamblers" like horse racing fans are.

EXACTLY

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I am a fantasy football player and I can assure you that the number is way too high. It is hard to find a league that is local. You have to play with strangers online. I am in a league with a former boss, he is the only one in the league I know. The league with 10 teams has players in 5 states.
Almost none of the college football fans play fantasy football on college, yet millions go to the games and millions watch it every Saturday in the fall. Explain that! Same with college hoops. No fantasy players.
Don't you find it a wee bit strange that the sports has legal betting on its sport is dying on the vine. They are in such bad shape that they are trying legalize betting on other sports so they can get a cut. How desperate is that?

Where does draftkings.com get the money from to pay out its 200 million dollars in prizes every year.

Foriegn countries i bet.

Allan

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The overwhelming majority of people who watch NFL games or college football games have no money on them. It is entertainment to them just like going to a movie or watching NCIS. The next thing you are going to be claiming is that the reason NCIS is so popular is that people are betting on whether Tony or McGee will figure out who the killer is first.

You think most people are sitting around staring at football for 3 hours at a clip with no vested interest?

Also, there may be people who are watching the games to learn the league so they can bet at a future date. If you are an expert at the NFL and you fly to Vegas once a winter and hang out in the sportsbook and bet a slate of games, the games you watched were watched looking to gather information for when you were in a position to wager.

The entire state of NJ would be watching those games knowing that they could actually take advantage of their time spent if there was sports betting, so while nobody bets every single came (well, maybe Whizz does ) if you make SOME bets at some point, you are essentially watching games to "handicap" for future days when you do have money down.

I don't believe that there's a large portion of people who study the sports leagues and spend hours upon hours watching events to never place a wager with the information they've gathered.