Big Ed taking over Phill Park

[Doc]

Anger? I don't own any horses, and I haven't placed a bet at Philly in weeks. To me, it's very unappealing wagering fare. Why don't you check Ed's winning/in-the-money percentage before he was crowned King of the Vaders Barn and tell me what you think. Did a bolt from above suddenly give Ed magical training powers that heretofore were hidden? You actually think that a guy who toiled on the bottom fringes of the Jersey circuit for years suddenly discovered the magical elixir that makes horses win? I don't think I'm stating anything that isn't absolutely obvious.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Doc

Anger? I don't own any horses, and I haven't placed a bet at Philly in weeks. To me, it's very unappealing wagering fare. Why don't you check Ed's winning/in-the-money percentage before he was crowned King of the Vaders Barn and tell me what you think. Did a bolt from above suddenly give Ed magical training powers that heretofore were hidden? You actually think that a guy who toiled on the bottom fringes of the Jersey circuit for years suddenly discovered the magical elixir that makes horses win? I don't think I'm stating anything that isn't absolutely obvious.

You could not be more on the ball......you dont seem angry at all to me-your posts indicate someone who gets frustrated when things are obviously out of wack or unfair and yet noone seems to care or be willing to do anything about it. I am constantly amazed at the "look the other way" types who try to ignore what is right in front of them. Sad thing is that many of these types of people are the ones who own the horses.....

[lamboguy]

the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.

what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.

a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.

what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.

a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.

Agreed----However, with all the layers in place and powers the way they are, it almost seems impossible. Those "safety guidelines" put out by the people at Churchill were just pathetic-they spent so much time looking at the problems and came out with most vanilla, generic guidelines I have ever seen that even a novice cheater could get around.....

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Doc

You better believe it's John McCaslin calling the shots by telephone so "Fast" Eddie Auwarter knows what to do! And it's business as usual in more ways than one ... a McCaslin horse snapped its cannon bone yesterday morning during training hours with house jock Laureano Flores aboard. Flores was taken by ambulance to the hospital with a head injury.

I absolutely HATE these kind of deals, too. When a trainer gets suspended - especially somebody like Vaders, whose suspension is "indefinite" - the stewards should break up the barn, not just pick a name out of the hat and hand him the reins. Not that long ago, the stewards allowed a clown named Bob Helmetag to run Vaders' horses in his name. Check out Helmetag's record for the last five years. He maybe won one or two races ... then as Vaders' body double, he racked up an impressive win and in-the-money percentage that shot him right to the top of The Pha's trainer standings.

I think it's DISGRACEFUL what the stewards have allowed to let happen in this situation. Bullcrap on McCaslin and Vaders calling the shots from home! Teach them a lesson for all the medication positives!

Doc

Before you take pot shots at a trainer like Helmetag make sure what you are saying is correct because it makes you out to be a rumor monger at best. Bob was the go to trainer that had the horses in his name, very rarely did they ever get trained by Helmetag, they were put in his name because McCaslin didnt have a trainers license. Helmetag is one of the nicest people you will ever meet at the racetrack, he is a genuine horseman and did someone a favor. If Bob knew what these horses were getting that were winning wouldnt he use it on his own stock? Vaders got what she deserved, but in no way was Helmetag a body double. Go back to your source and ask them to tell you the entire truth!

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.

what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.

a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.

While the economy is in the crapper no one will add any additional costs to their payroll especially the cost of more enforcement. You are correct we do need a monitoring board for those who have cheated or are suspected of cheating. But right now is the wrong time to put a task force or ruling committee together.

[timp]

Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .

[toetoe]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

impropriortories

As an inventor of words myself, I bow to you, Sir. What does it m--- no never mind. I don't even need to know. .

[cj]

Originally Posted by timp

Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .

Sure they do, that is why some guys win 2% off the claim and other guys win 40%.

[john del riccio]

Originally Posted by timp

Boy you have a lot of anger either you are a owner or trainer that never wins or a gambler that keeps getting beat by Ed .If so why not just give your horses to him to train or bet on his horses either way solves the problem.

No, he has been around the block, you'll wake up soon enough....

John

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure they do, that is why some guys win 2% off the claim and other guys win 40%.

Precisely....the "horse makes the trainer"argument has so many holes in it, I dont know where to start....

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by timp

Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .

OK-explain this----Recently,Stephanie Beattie had a horse named Melodic Escapade claimed from her that was running Beyers in the 60's with the most recent one being a 62.....the new trainer had a few starts with the horse and did nothing in either-the first was a class jump, where she had a 44 Beyer but then dropped down to where she was claimed from Beattie and ran a 35---Beattie claimed her for 5K....a month later, the horse won a31K a other than race with a 70 Beyer and last Sunday won an open 5K race with a Beyer that was probably around 70......please explain this to me and back up your point.


Also, you may remember a sprinter named Shake You Down about 5(?)years ago---ran Beyers in the 90 range, Lake claimed him and won over a million running Beyers in the 110 range.

Lava Man.....well, you should know-----please explain all of these improvements and how trainers dont matter.....


Your blindness to this concept keeps you from giving trainers any credit and also keeps you from seeing shady things occurring-----both things display a definite lack of understanding of basic things that go on in the game we all love.

[onefast99]

trainers make a huge difference, but I still wouldnt claim one off Lake or Pletcher or Breen.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by onefast99

trainers make a huge difference, but I still wouldnt claim one off Lake or Pletcher or Breen.

me neither.....nowhere to go but down in most cases

[Doc]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Before you take pot shots at a trainer like Helmetag make sure what you are saying is correct because it makes you out to be a rumor monger at best. Bob was the go to trainer that had the horses in his name, very rarely did they ever get trained by Helmetag, they were put in his name because McCaslin didnt have a trainers license. Helmetag is one of the nicest people you will ever meet at the racetrack, he is a genuine horseman and did someone a favor. If Bob knew what these horses were getting that were winning wouldnt he use it on his own stock? Vaders got what she deserved, but in no way was Helmetag a body double. Go back to your source and ask them to tell you the entire truth!

Hey onefast99, I have seen with my own eyes the care - or lack of - that Helmetag gives his horses. To call him a "genuine horsemen" could not be further from the truth. Sure, he's a nice guy, but so are most trainers. Helmetag was indeed a body double for Vaders. If you ever get the opportunity to get on the backstretch of Philly Park, take a stroll over to Helmetag's barn and see for yourself. Ask the people who are in the barn with him what they think. I'm not making any of this up. And here's a trivia question for you - when was the last time Helmetag won a race? Any idea of his record the last few years? You can't use the time he was filling in for Vaders. I don't mean this post as an attack on Helmetag personally, just that to say he's a "genuine horseman" is laughable.