New York Franchise Award Recommendation May Come Nov. 21

[Indulto]

Columnist Crist’s compelling commentary concerning comptroller crisis:

New York in turbulent state

By STEVEN CRIST
http://drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=82495

… the newly elected governor declared war on the entire state legislature.

Entertainment value aside, this all actually has something to do with racing, because the unprecedented hostility between the governor and legislators seems certain to affect the battle for the New York Racing Association franchise.

… All of this makes the franchise issue that Spitzer inherited a little more interesting on two counts. First, the chances of an amiably brokered deal among the governor and the two houses of the legislature seems increasingly unlikely. Second, as Spitzer continues to emphasize rather than retreat from his zealous stance as a uniquely principled reformer, it will grow ever more difficult for Spitzer to accept the recommendation of the previous administration to award the franchise to a group that includes at least two close Spitzer associates and contributors.

[aaron]

It should be interesting to see the mechanics of who gets to run the slots in NY.
As for the racing,I would guess no matter who runs the racing,the purses will increase,which should be good for the industry.The player will most likely see no benefit. As for the on track player,I doubt that they will return,no matter who gets the franchise.I used to attend the races live,at least 3-4 days a week.I now don't attend Aqueduct at all and will probably attend Belmont less.
I like attending the races live,but I don't see the powers that be doing anything to encourage you to go to the track to bet horses.As I see it they will probably run buses and do things to encourage slot players to attend.
Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.Times have changed and its not likely they will be able to attract people to visit their facilities on a regular basis.Its just too easy and comfortable to bet from or other venues.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by aaron

Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.Times have changed and its not likely they will be able to attract people to visit their facilities on a regular basis.Its just too easy and comfortable to bet from or other venues.

Isn't than an industry-wide dilemma? Is NY the only place where on-track attendance has gone down?

Obviously, with the increase of OTBs, simulcast wagering, phone wagering and INTERNET wagering, track attendance takes a serious hit. Good thing tracks don't rely on attendance to keep them afloat....they rely on wagering $$$ primarily....or slot money....lol

[aaron]

Pa,
Attendance at tracks is an industry wide problem.
I guess what I am saying is that increasing on track attendance should not be considered an issue,because it is not going to happen,so any entity trying to peddle their package saying that they will bring people back to the track should not be considered rational.
People will come for the slots and that is the only reason on track attendance may increase.
Pa-
Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years. Have you been to the track at all in the last few years ? If you have, I can't believe you would find anything positive to say.The facilities are dirty and unkempt at Aqueduct. Belmont needs a paint job and some maintenance.Saratoga is the only track they care about.
The tellers are basically incompetent and surly,and I don't want to get in to their changing of tote companies.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by aaron

Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years. Have you been to the track at all in the last few years ? If you have, I can't believe you would find anything positive to say.The facilities are dirty and unkempt at Aqueduct. Belmont needs a paint job and some maintenance.Saratoga is the only track they care about.
The tellers are basically incompetent and surly,and I don't want to get in to their changing of tote companies.

Have YOU been to Aqueduct lately? I've seen a lot of maintenance going on (painting, etc.) for a track that is in the middle of bankruptcy.....I wonder where they are getting the money from, and why would they be making cosmetic improvements if they are struggling to even survive?

To answer your main point, for one, NYRA is my home track....I grew up on NYRA and I love NYRA racing. I LOVE Belmont and Saratoga, and I will ALWAYS have a strong fondness for the winter Aqueduct inner-track meeting.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just trying to be FAIR. In that last post, you tried to pass off dropping attendance as a problem unique to NYRA and caused by poor management at NYRA over the last 30 years.

YES, we all know NYRA management has been lacking at times. But we also all know that declining on-track attendance is an INDUSTRY-WIDE problem, so to try and present it as a NYRA-only problem is disingenuous on your part. And to try and pin it on NYRA management is silly, when we all know the major reason attendance has declined is because of the increasing availability of venues other than the track where you can place your bet.

If the track was one of the few places you could get a bet down, the walls could be CRUMBLING and the place would still be packed.....THIS is the reason for poor management in the past....management was operating under the assumption that they were one of the few games in town, so whatever they do, or DON'T DO, doesn't matter, since the people will still come and wager.

The real heart of the matter is that attendance at the TRACK really isn't all that important if the wagering dollars continue to flow....and this leads TODAY's management to not really push themselves to bolster on-track attendance. Sure, more bodies in the stands LOOKS nice, but if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think, given the huge disparity in on-track attendance figures.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong....

[aaron]

PA-
I have probably been betting and going to NYRA tracks longer than you.The reason I address these problems as being NYRA problems is because I live in NY and attended the races at NYRA.
As for your stance that the important thing is that the "wagering dollars continue to flow"
This is not the solution.It would be great if the dollars flowed at the NYRA tracks or into NYRA One accounts,but the dollars flowing from otb's and other venues are at a very cheap rate,so that additional handle really doesn't benefit NYRA as much as it should.
So while I agree on track attendance can not be greatly improved perhaps betting with NYRA ONE accounts can be.
Also,the bottom line is not the same if attendance is 2000,instead of 20,000 and you'd be a fool to think it is and I don't think you're a fool.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by aaron

Also,the bottom line is not the same if attendance is 2000,instead of 20,000 and you'd be a fool to think it is and I don't think you're a fool.

I never said it would be the same. Here's what I stated:

Sure, more bodies in the stands LOOKS nice, but if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think, given the huge disparity in on-track attendance figures.

"ISN'T AS AFFECTED AS MUCH AS YOU'D THINK" does not equal "BOTTOM LINE IS THE SAME"

[aaron]

Pa-
If the wagering $ is the same whether there 2000 people in the stands or 20000 people on the stands,don't you think that the difference of 18000 people betting thru NYRA instead of betting thru otb's or other betting venue could be significant ? I know many bettors who stopped going to the track and also stopped betting thru their NYRA accounts.

[saratoga guy]

Originally Posted by aaron

Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years.

I certainly won't speak for PA, but, speaking for myself, when someone posts something like this...

Originally Posted by aaron

Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.

...I find it a little bit disingenuous because it implies that NYRA is different than other racing entities.

The fact is, the problems plaguing NYRA as far as attendance and the overall popularity of the sport are problems for everyone.

Clearly Churchill (a bidding partner for the NY franchise) doesn't have a magic wand -- otherwise they wouldn't have sold Hollywood and Ellis Park.

[aaron]

As I have stated before, I am not really concerned about the problems of the other racing entites.I don't care if racing in Kentucky, Maryland,Florida,and California is run poorly.
Saratoga Guy- You are implying that because other racing venues have problems it is okay for NY racing to have the same problems.
How about this- If NewYork racing had been able to do a better and efficent job over the years maybe racing in NY would not have such severe problems.
Even in the last few years NYRA in my opinion has missed the mark.They got rid of Barry Schwartz who in my opinion did try to do the right thing regarding NY racing. He was the last administrator who lowered the take and he was working for nothing. His administration was blamed for all the inequities that were going on long before he took the helm. I know many people on this board don't agree with this,but I have not seen any improvement since he left.

[Kelso]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think

Don't the tracks have to split the takeout to some degree with the off-track sites, or do the off-tracks tack on extra take? Assuming the former, I would expect there to be reasonable profit boost from attracting more trackside bettors.

On that count, has anyone heard any anecdotal evidence that perhaps some slot players ... upon having perhaps their first-ever exposure to the excitement of a live race ... are now becoming horse players as well? My guess is that the vast majority of casino players have never even considered betting on a race. There's nothing to stop them from betting on both horses and machines.

With some imaginative on-site marketing, the slots might be the source of significantly increased handles? (Or just wishful thinking?)

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by Kelso

... I would expect there to be reasonable profit boost from attracting more trackside bettors.

On that count, has anyone heard any anecdotal evidence that perhaps some slot players ... upon having perhaps their first-ever exposure to the excitement of a live race ... are now becoming horse players as well? My guess is that the vast majority of casino players have never even considered betting on a race. There's nothing to stop them from betting on both horses and machines.

With some imaginative on-site marketing, the slots might be the source of significantly increased handles? (Or just wishful thinking?)

5X,
I agree with you. I've always thought that a great way to introduce horseracing to slots players was to offer an on-track only 5c pari-mutuel wager called the PerfectPick in which the winner has to specify the exact order of finish for all entries in a race. This would be a lottery type of bet to compete with nickel slots that wouldn't wear out a player's arm. Supers, Tris and Exs would be natural progressions.

The problem, of course, is the potential slowdown in slots activity nine-times a day to watch the live race. Maybe they could measure how quickly a slot player's arm gets tired to achieve the same effect. Seems to me a guaranteed break would increase the gross through renewed vigor, but I'm sure that would be as popular with the powers-that-be as lowering takeout.

[saratoga guy]

Originally Posted by aaron

As I have stated before, I am not really concerned about the problems of the other racing entites.I don't care if racing in Kentucky, Maryland,Florida,and California is run poorly.
Saratoga Guy- You are implying that because other racing venues have problems it is okay for NY racing to have the same problems.

I didn't come remotely close to implying that.

Rather, in this thread about the NY franchise, it's perfectly legit to criticize any problems that NY racing has. But the question needs to be addressed: How to solve those problems, and who best to do it.

Thus, you have to be concerned with other racing entities. Is someone out there doing better than NYRA? If not, why not? Perhaps these problems are not that easily solved that we should expect the next franchise holder to have the magic wand.

Two member-partners of one of the franchise bidders [Magna and Churchill] have demonstrated problems of their own in recent years.

Go ahead -- point to problems real or perceived with NYRA -- but then tell us who, among the franchise bidders, will solve them and why you think that.

[Kelso]

Originally Posted by Indulto

I've always thought that a great way to introduce horseracing to slots players was to offer an on-track only 5c pari-mutuel wager called the PerfectPick in which the winner has to specify the exact order of finish for all entries in a race.

Great idea! Simple, cheap, track-exclusive, and potentially addictive! Run it as a progressive ... with which lottery and slot players can readily identify ... and by the 3rd carry-over there might be a couple hundred slot players along the rail actually getting caught up in the action.

Then, the next time they're waiting for their favorite machine to free up, they might put a deuce on the favorite just to kill the time. (Similar strategy to having diners drop a few extra bucks at the bar while waiting for a table.)

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

... in this thread about the NY franchise, it's perfectly legit to criticize any problems that NY racing has. But the question needs to be addressed: How to solve those problems, and who best to do it.

... Go ahead -- point to problems real or perceived with NYRA -- but then tell us who, among the franchise bidders, will solve them and why you think that.

SG,
At this point in the proceedings, it's hard to believe any of the bidders would be forthcoming with any solutions that don't coincide with their own interests.

A potential flaw with the RFP is that it merely invited solutions rather than specify them. We haven't yet seen each bidder's proposal, but I suspect that workable solutions will involve some combination of ideas from all parties. Perhaps that was the Grand Plan all along -- to elicit ideas from which to take subsequent legislative action.

The tail should not wag the dog. The Governor and the legislature need to set the rules to make racing work for the state, its citizens, horse owners, and customers.

Do the events of the last week encourage that possibility? Any talk of integrity is just lip service until Baeza gets his reputation back. All the bidders deserve scrutiny, but the NYRA still has to answer for that one.