Feinstein Wants Santa Anita Halted

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Dog racing was probably more important to Florida's economy than horse racing is to California's, and the voters there dumped it anyway.

As a kid I used to see movie stars at the track all the time. I never do anymore-

I call bullshit on that one. If a no one like me can hang around a well know racing people and meet Hollywood types than there is a lot more than you are giving credit for.

[elhelmete]

When AQU had two very notable spikes in deaths, and adjustments were made (successfully IMHO), where was that frothy outrage?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

Using an anomalie isn't going to rationalize it. You've got an owner/trainer (same person) maximizing what he can out of a horse that ran down the class ladder over 7 seasons to get every last dollar out of it. This is the red meat that activists are going to get ahold of and use to publicize their cause. Racing needs to stop giving this to them

That's not an anomaly. That's the point.

12 starts a year isn't some crazy number even today. Averaging four weeks between starts isn't horse abuse. There are 4,859 horses who've made 6 starts already this year in North America. That's 14.8% of the North American starters, more than 1/8th of the horses have run as much as Kochees did this year.

[bob60566]

This is from few years ago.

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm...324-story.html

[Jeff P]

From the LA Times link that you posted:
https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm...324-story.html

Susan Stover, a professor of veterinary medicine at UC Davis who examines the broken bones of deceased California race horses, said that fatal injuries usually start as mild ones that went undetected.

"We need to be able to pick up those minor injuries," Stover said.

Imo, hard to believe the above quote is from seven years ago --

Prior to this season at Santa Anita, has there been any material emphasis on identifying at risk horses and keeping them off the track?



-jp

.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

From the LA Times link that you posted:
https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm...324-story.html



Imo, hard to believe the above quote is from seven years ago --

Prior to this season at Santa Anita, has there been any material emphasis on identifying at risk horses and keeping them off the track?



-jp

.

these injuries are probably broken tivia's. my unprofessional opinion is that the climate in California might have a big impact on all these injuries. i am saying that because the same injuries were happening when the surface in Hollywood Park was synthetic.

[Flashbackdiner]

Does anyone know what the greatest amount of jockey deaths in one year is? I remember late 90’s back to back years a jockey got killed on the New England fair circuit.The races didn’t miss a beat those summers. The more on track injuries these horses have bring a greater risk of serious and even death to the jockeys. It’s only a matter of time before their luck runs out. That will surely snowball the end of horse racing in the United States .

[HalvOnHorseracing]

A few years ago they banned dog racing in Iowa. I said we're next for exactly the reasons that have been offered on the thread. The biggest reason is there just aren't that many inveterate horse players left and we're not likely to be replaced by younger generations.

If you look at football, it leaves players crippled after their careers. There is a guy who played safety for Denver that comes to the golf course supported by two crutches. That's his life from now on. So many of them suffer CTE. Even Troy Aikman admits he's out of it sometimes. It's just that football players don't die on the field. And obviously they make their own decision to play juiced on toradol or some other painkiller. I've both separated and dislocated my shoulder. There is no way I could have possibly continued after those injuries. But there are players that do it and you know there are drugs involved. In baseball, the news might be that a player hurt his wrist but is using cortisone to play. No big deal at all. If you think it doesn't happen in all sports, you had to have been living in a cave. But as humans we can make our own decisions while horses are dependent on their trainers to decide how to keep them healthy, so we don't think about banning the collision sports.

People who play the races all the time don't trust the trainers, or the jockeys. The criticism is steady about both. In the movie, Once Upon a Time in the West, Henry Fonda decides to eliminate one of his very overweight confederates. The large man wears pants with both a belt and suspenders. Before the killing shot, Fonda says, how can I trust a man who doesn't trust his own pants. How can we bet when trainers are sending lame horses out or giving them some mysterious drug or both?

I think most of us know this. If there wasn't betting we wouldn't waste 10 minutes watching horses run around. Too many people are loyal to the money they dream of making. Now we're really being asked to support the industry we criticize. We're being asked to say despite the problems we have faith that we will solve all the problems. There is no dream without all the people who make the horses go.

If horse racing ends, maybe I'll bet Hong Kong or England or Japan. Or maybe I'll just ride off into the sunset.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I call bullshit on that one. If a no one like me can hang around a well know racing people and meet Hollywood types than there is a lot more than you are giving credit for.

A-listers? Because that's what you used to see at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park.

[Flashbackdiner]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

A few years ago they banned dog racing in Iowa. I said we're next for exactly the reasons that have been offered on the thread. The biggest reason is there just aren't that many inveterate horse players left and we're not likely to be replaced by younger generations.

If you look at football, it leaves players crippled after their careers. There is a guy who played safety for Denver that comes to the golf course supported by two crutches. That's his life from now on. So many of them suffer CTE. Even Troy Aikman admits he's out of it sometimes. It's just that football players don't die on the field. And obviously they make their own decision to play juiced on toradol or some other painkiller. I've both separated and dislocated my shoulder. There is no way I could have possibly continued after those injuries. But there are players that do it and you know there are drugs involved. In baseball, the news might be that a player hurt his wrist but is using cortisone to play. No big deal at all. If you think it doesn't happen in all sports, you had to have been living in a cave. But as humans we can make our own decisions while horses are dependent on their trainers to decide how to keep them healthy, so we don't think about banning the collision sports.

People who play the races all the time don't trust the trainers, or the jockeys. The criticism is steady about both. In the movie, Once Upon a Time in the West, Henry Fonda decides to eliminate one of his very overweight confederates. The large man wears pants with both a belt and suspenders. Before the killing shot, Fonda says, how can I trust a man who doesn't trust his own pants. How can we bet when trainers are sending lame horses out or giving them some mysterious drug or both?

I think most of us know this. If there wasn't betting we wouldn't waste 10 minutes watching horses run around. Too many people are loyal to the money they dream of making. Now we're really being asked to support the industry we criticize. We're being asked to say despite the problems we have faith that we will solve all the problems. There is no dream without all the people who make the horses go.

If horse racing ends, maybe I'll bet Hong Kong or England or Japan. Or maybe I'll just ride off into the sunset.

But yet the handles continue to surge even while all the old time bettors are dying off. How/why is that? Maybe there are a lot of rogue online bettors that you will never see at the track. The money is coming from somewhere that is for sure.

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

For those who think horse racing is going the way of dog racing, don't bet on it.

There is way too much money involved. Dog racing doesn't generate even a tenth of the handle horse racing generates annually in the USA, and with Florida leaving the picture, fahgettaboudit.

Never mind breeding and sales, the number of people employed by the sport, etc. etc. etc.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. That kind of money doesn't go quietly into the night. There are a lot of rich and powerful people involved in the sport of horse racing. And rich and powerful people often get their way.

That's not to say horse racing doesn't need to absolutely 100% clean up its act, and fast. It does.

You really do think it would survive a ballot question? In a state like California?

Continuing an activity simply because it employs people doesn't work in this day and age or else we'd still be clinging to coal like our life depended on it.

Humans have moved on from institutions even if it did have economic consequences.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Every time I read the "they have an agenda" rebuttal, I have to point out that these exact criticisms of horse racing have been raised here many, many times over the years. But now that horse breakdowns are being noticed outside of the racing "bubble", everyone is becoming defensive. It's a shame the industry didn't spend the last 30 years becoming active and addressing these issues instead of ignoring everything. Yes, some tracks and individuals have taken action, but this is just horse racing's "cover it up and hope it all blows over" tactics coming back to haunt it.

Correct.
"Cover it up and hope it all blows over".
Correct +1.
There are three groups who fit what you've described.
The Stronach Group.
The Horsemen.
The California Horse Racing Board.
And even though everybody on this board.......and in the real world can read the room properly.........the three above mentioned groups are incapable...........they are without a doubt the most unaware bunch to ever walk the face of the earth.
They truly think they're sh** doesn't smell.
And I don't have to tell anybody on this board how it's going to play out down the road.

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

A few years ago they banned dog racing in Iowa. I said we're next for exactly the reasons that have been offered on the thread. The biggest reason is there just aren't that many inveterate horse players left and we're not likely to be replaced by younger generations.

If you look at football, it leaves players crippled after their careers. There is a guy who played safety for Denver that comes to the golf course supported by two crutches. That's his life from now on. So many of them suffer CTE. Even Troy Aikman admits he's out of it sometimes. It's just that football players don't die on the field. And obviously they make their own decision to play juiced on toradol or some other painkiller. I've both separated and dislocated my shoulder. There is no way I could have possibly continued after those injuries. But there are players that do it and you know there are drugs involved. In baseball, the news might be that a player hurt his wrist but is using cortisone to play. No big deal at all. If you think it doesn't happen in all sports, you had to have been living in a cave. But as humans we can make our own decisions while horses are dependent on their trainers to decide how to keep them healthy, so we don't think about banning the collision sports.

People who play the races all the time don't trust the trainers, or the jockeys. The criticism is steady about both. In the movie, Once Upon a Time in the West, Henry Fonda decides to eliminate one of his very overweight confederates. The large man wears pants with both a belt and suspenders. Before the killing shot, Fonda says, how can I trust a man who doesn't trust his own pants. How can we bet when trainers are sending lame horses out or giving them some mysterious drug or both?

I think most of us know this. If there wasn't betting we wouldn't waste 10 minutes watching horses run around. Too many people are loyal to the money they dream of making. Now we're really being asked to support the industry we criticize. We're being asked to say despite the problems we have faith that we will solve all the problems. There is no dream without all the people who make the horses go.

If horse racing ends, maybe I'll bet Hong Kong or England or Japan. Or maybe I'll just ride off into the sunset.

I'll be honest, I'm a 33 year old that actually can watch a race very easily with no bet on it. A trainer on another forum has taught me a lot about trip handicapping that I can actually appreciate the race for what it is. It helps that I'm into other raced/timed sports like luge/F1/various sports and touring car series.

In some parts of the world that have high takeouts, people actually still watch it as a sport.

I just don't buy that the packed grandstands in the 20s was simply because every poor person in America was laying down $40/race.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

For those who think horse racing is going the way of dog racing, don't bet on it.

There is way too much money involved. Dog racing doesn't generate even a tenth of the handle horse racing generates annually in the USA, and with Florida leaving the picture, fahgettaboudit.

Never mind breeding and sales, the number of people employed by the sport, etc. etc. etc.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. That kind of money doesn't go quietly into the night. There are a lot of rich and powerful people involved in the sport of horse racing. And rich and powerful people often get their way.

That's not to say horse racing doesn't need to absolutely 100% clean up its act, and fast. It does.

Yep, and I can also see that since certain political figures are taking the fight against horse racing, it will take a political stance....which will end up getting deadlocked the way this country is right now. I do think the industry will have to begrudgingly adopt more stringent drug policies to say to the people who don't really pay attention to the sport that they are doing something proactive to prevent deaths of horses. As far as horse racing is concerned, I don't see it going away, there are several states like Kentucky that have much bigger incomes from the industry that will fight like hell to keep it around. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, the sport isn't going away.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by Flashbackdiner

But yet the handles continue to surge even while all the old time bettors are dying off. How/why is that? Maybe there are a lot of rogue online bettors that you will never see at the track. The money is coming from somewhere that is for sure.

Yep, I've gone to Santa Anita lately, and even though the crowds are down, the handle is still pretty steady. That means most of the money is coming in from out of state and even from out of the country thanks to betting via satellite TV and the internet.