Preakness result hurt West's court case

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Blenheim, court cases are judged by human beings. The Wests have absolutely no case on the legal merits. But an old lawyers' saying is when the law doesn't support you, you pound the facts. Because maybe you will get some sympathy.

Today's result was a bad fact for West, because it makes it look like the foul really harmed War of Will. Which lessens the Wests' chances.

I really don't understand why you think I don't know these things.

And the rest of the lawyer's saying is when the facts don't support you, you pound the table.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Upon first glance, yes, it seems so. Digging deeper, you see that as above, the biggest shooters didn't go at it again, Gaffalione keeps the rail ride, and in a sense, that almost vindicates Maximum Security. He rode up the horse's ass without checking him, here he just didn't have anyone to hit from behind, it happened to stay clear. In the stretch I wonder if anyone complained about the bumping and the bearing out WoW did 3 lanes rightward.

So this exonerates MS because without him there to cause WoW to "run up his behind" by swerving in front of and fouling him he ran a much better race?
That's a good one.

WoW did not foul anyone in the Preakness. Gees, are you going to keep blaming other horses for MS's foul in a race he wasn't even in 2 weeks later? Will it ever end?

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

In the stretch I wonder if anyone complained about the bumping and the bearing out WoW did 3 lanes rightward.

No one complained because WoW did not even touch another horse in the stretch, let alone prevent a better placement. Check the head-on at the YouTube replay.

[Raider]

It will never end. I can see this going to the Supreme Court, and not being heard. West entered into to the KYD, he knew the rules and the law. State law states that the stewards decisions can not be appealed. MS was DQ. Every thing that west has done since and might do in the future won't change that.
The only way this will end on this board is if those of us who accept the DQ stop responding to those who do not. Reason and logic will not work with them. Its a waste of time responding to them.


Just read what I wrote, think I will follow that advice, MS was DQ, nothing is going to change that.

The End

[highnote]

It is not surprising that WOW won the Preakness. The two best Derby horses did not run. Also, one thing I learned a long time ago from Dick Mitchell and Sartin us that horses take turns beating each other. MS is not a terribly fast horse. That Derby figure was pretty low by historical standards and I am told that the Preakness was over two lengths slower than par. Good chance MS would have crushed WOW. Or maybe not. We can only speculate.

Maybe one of the owners will take up West on his $5 million offer. Hope so.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Blenheim, court cases are judged by human beings. The Wests have absolutely no case on the legal merits. But an old lawyers' saying is when the law doesn't support you, you pound the facts. Because maybe you will get some sympathy.

Today's result was a bad fact for West, because it makes it look like the foul really harmed War of Will. Which lessens the Wests' chances.

I really don't understand why you think I don't know these things.

They’ll win on due process, get a hearing, and the still lose the KD trophy.

But the Preakness results have zero to do with what happened in the Preakness.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

But the Preakness results have zero to do with what happened in the Preakness.

The best thing for fans is that WOW won the Preakness. This sets up some rivalry and drama for the rest of the season.

[Gold Medal]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

West already erred by not running MS in the race, but this is the worst possible outcome for him. The horse his horse fouled just won the Preakness. That just undescores that the foul may have cost WoW a place two weeks ago.

You present yourself as this legal scholar, but what you just said is 100% false. What West is arguing in his lawsuit has no connection to the results of the Preakness. Absolutely none.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Gold Medal

You present yourself as this legal scholar, but what you just said is 100% false. What West is arguing in his lawsuit has no connection to the results of the Preakness. Absolutely none.

Gold, I explained the connection quite well. Cases are decided by human beings, not robots, and this matters.

I present myself as a practicing lawyer with over 23 years experience. And any lawyer who advised a client that there was "absolutely" no connection could be sued for malpractice. Seriously, the advice would be that bad.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by papillon

The race is inadmissable in court under releavancy rules, and has no relevancy to a due process case even in the colloquial sense.

It has absolutely no effect.

It doesn't even have a serious effect on handicapping a future race btwn Maximum Security and War of Will.

I seriously hope you are not a lawyer.

I get it, you don't like West, you don't like Servis, you don't like Saez, you don't like the horse. I don't care about or for any of them. But gtfo if you are lawyer who neither understands this case, nor why in the larger picture the issue at law here is pretty important for all the non-millions, who can't challenge abitrary and capricious agency rulings.

Now that Casse, Barber, and Gafflione have actually won a TC race, they should be asked how sanguine they'd feel if it was snatched away 20 minutes latter.

There is $5m on the table, the ball is in their court. Take the challenge, go head to head with Maxium Security.

Big Drama is missing, that's what I care about, that and the fact that I actually do find legal cases fascinating. I picked a good career for myself.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Cases are decided by human beings, not robots, and this matters.

Yes. Human judgement is subject to human error.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by BlueChip@DRF

Yes. Human judgement is subject to human error.

It's not error. It's subjective human judgment, which when deployed by smart and compassionate people, results in doing justice. Doing justice is a key part of the system.

[NY BRED]

At the end of the day, and I am sure everyone here knows my position regarding this debacle..

Is it tradition or, for lack of a better word insane, to allow
3 stewards the ability to act as dictators in one of the most
"revered" races during the year? I state dictators, as the owners, trainers
and jockeys waive their rights to protest the decisions.

That said, guess who was prompted to call for an inquiry?

Of course, what rights do these participants have, since without them there
is no Derby.

We also know the stewards refused to meet with Mr.West, Jason Servis,
and Luis Saez after the race.

Why should they, as the Stewards are the most important and respected
members representing Churchill Downs


Really???

Gary West will hopefully prove to the racing community that owners
and the Public Have the right to appeal this type of judgment, especially
based on the lack of action by stewards on this race for 145 races/years.


Further, appeals are ALLOWED in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes.

The Triple Crown rules of the game must be identical for all legs of the Triple Crown,
in fairness to the participant and the racing fans who support this game.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

At the end of the day, and I am sure everyone here knows my position regarding this debacle..

Is it tradition or, for lack of a better word insane, to allow
3 stewards the ability to act as dictators in one of the most
"revered" races during the year? I state dictators, as the owners, trainers
and jockeys waive their rights to protest the decisions.

That said, guess who was prompted to call for an inquiry?

Of course, what rights do these participants have, since without them there
is no Derby.

We also know the stewards refused to meet with Mr.West, Jason Servis,
and Luis Saez after the race.

Why should they, as the Stewards are the most important and respected
members representing Churchill Downs


Really???

Gary West will hopefully prove to the racing community that owners
and the Public Have the right to appeal this type of judgment, especially
based on the lack of action by stewards on this race for 145 races/years.


Further, appeals are ALLOWED in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes.

The Triple Crown rules of the game must be identical for all legs of the Triple Crown,
in fairness to the participant and the racing fans who support this game.

All sports need referees. And referees' decisions need to be final.

The participants have lots of rights. Indeed, among those rights were the rights of the riders of War of Will, Long Range Toddy, and Bodexpress to not have the leader dangerously cut in front of them and risk a serious accident. Indeed, that right is far more important than the supposed right of West, Servis and Saez to "talk to the stewards". Saez got a chance to talk to the stewards, before he hired lawyers to tell him what to say. That's the only time when they need to talk to him. Anything after the lawyers get involved is likely to be unrelable anyway.

The appeals "allowed" in the Preakness and Belmont are perfunctory. It isn't as though the Maryland or New York horse racing commissions ever actually reverse stewards' disqualifications.