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08-02-2012, 05:39 PM
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#16
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
You are joking right?...
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Not unless you count loss of life and treasure a victory.
We gain nothing from Syria. We stand to lose tons.
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08-02-2012, 06:35 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by newtothegame
Elysian, I ALMOST agree with you here. Question is, WHO are we supporting as a government. It was not that long ago, we "supported" the overthrow of the egyptian regime led by Mubarak. Everyone was assured that the brotherhood, was not going to step in and take control. In essence, we supported the BROTHERHOODS rise depending on how you perceive what EVERYONE knew would happen.
IS Assaad (sp) an asshole? Sure. But, who would fill the vaccuum? Al Queda? (sp). More of the Brotherhood?
See, it is of my opinion, and probably Tom's at this point and time that we have NO business in "nation building". It hasn't worked well in the past for us and will most likely not work in our favor in this one as well.
But yes, I understand your point that we do have valid concerns there.....question is, what does our current administration want to come of Syria???
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You are trying to compare two totally different situations. This is much more like Libya than Egypt.
We care because we can A) hurt our rival's influence in the region and B) roll the dice on getting a friendlier regime.
The outcome of other countries elections really is beyond the control of the President.
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 08-02-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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08-02-2012, 06:38 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Not unless you count loss of life and treasure a victory.
We gain nothing from Syria. We stand to lose tons.
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We weaken a rival, their influence in the region, and possibly gain more influence in a country that has politically been a problem.
Thats a gain. There aren't a lot of ways this is a loss.
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08-02-2012, 07:05 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Horseshit, every time Obozo sticks himself into another country affairs we get monsters greater than the previous one. Just watch what goes on in Libya in the next five years.
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08-02-2012, 08:14 PM
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#20
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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mostie, you have no conception of how things relate to each other.
It is like the Viet Nam deal because we start out with a few "advisers" and no intention of sending troops. Yadda yadda yadda and guess where we end up?
Who we support and who is the bad guy is not the point.
And btw, there is not good guy in this scenario.
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08-03-2012, 12:44 PM
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#21
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Syria could be a stepping stone to Iran ?
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Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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08-03-2012, 01:00 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 77
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
We had a real mission then, and it paid off with the demise of the Soviet Union.
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Jimmy Carter fan?
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08-03-2012, 01:44 PM
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#23
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Ronald Reagan.
1980s.
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08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 77
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For some history.
Quote:
Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention. Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?
B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
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08-03-2012, 03:39 PM
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#25
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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1979 was (thankfully) his last year....Reagan took over and the introduction of the the stinger sealed the deal. That, and Star Wars and his firing of the air traffic controllers.
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08-03-2012, 07:59 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: El Paso
Posts: 466
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Saudi, Turkey, Qatar back rebels. US backs Saudi, Turkey, Qatar, Egypt, Israel, Iraq etc etc. Britain back US and supplies military comms equipment but not arms. Turkey supplies military training. Someone supplies small arms. Russia arms Syrian Government. It is the Middle East diplomatic quagmire where whatever US does is right for some countries and wrong for others. Absolutely nothing to do with Nation Building. Obama is doing the right thing once again by keeping US troops well out of it.
"Some US lawmakers, such as the Republican senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, have criticised Obama for moving too slowly to assist the Syrian rebels and have suggested the US government become directly involved in arming Assad's opponents."
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08-03-2012, 08:05 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,002
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War porn
As long as the we're not involved, the thought of Syria turning into another Vietnam gives me a stiffy.
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08-04-2012, 12:25 PM
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#28
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Quote:
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"Some US lawmakers, such as the Republican senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, have criticised Obama for moving too slowly to assist the Syrian rebels and have suggested the US government become directly involved in arming Assad's opponents."
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Some Us lawmakers are complete idiots.
McCain...hasn't he hurt this country enough?
John, go home and shut your big mouth - no one cares what you have to say. If you feel so strongly about it, YOU take your sorry ass over there and do whatever it is that you do. Drool on them, fart at them...be all that you an be, John.
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08-04-2012, 01:01 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Some Us lawmakers are complete idiots.
McCain...hasn't he hurt this country enough?
John, go home and shut your big mouth - no one cares what you have to say. If you feel so strongly about it, YOU take your sorry ass over there and do whatever it is that you do. Drool on them, fart at them...be all that you an be, John.
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Wow...
Your crassness really has no bounds does it. I can promise you that you aren't even a .5% of what John McCain was and is...
Go ahead and disagree but have some respect.
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08-04-2012, 01:04 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
As long as the we're not involved, the thought of Syria turning into another Vietnam gives me a stiffy.
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You are just wrong.. you know that though
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