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Old 03-14-2019, 07:10 PM   #16
thespaah
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
Losers who can't afford data probably shouldn't be playing in the first place. It's a nice reality check.
It depends on your definition of "loser"..
If one is a hopeless degenerate gamble who hasn't turned a profit since JFK was president, yeah, they are a 'loser'.
If you are referring to those who struggle to turn a profit and just require a change in strategy, that isn't a loser. Not in my book.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:09 AM   #17
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Wanted to address part of this one:

"Install a modern secure tote system capable of rendering odds and payoffs in something approaching real time (or much closer to secure and real time than what we have now.)"

I'm not going to comment on the "secure" part because that is a loaded term in any technology industry today. I will say from a networking side the tote system I know is about as secure as you can get.

On the odds and payoffs:
Most Tote systems are fully capable today of doing 5 second cycles, Any faster than that is pretty much useless even on fast updating tech (Web) as it would just be a blur of changes before you could even read them.

The reasons more of them do not actually use that is a bit more complicated:

Given the technology of most tote boards a 5 second cycle would cause them to continually rotate.

Most video companies cannot update that fast as their systems are not designed for it.

I think we may be the only ADW capable of it.

While I think the tote systems are absolutely archaic, its not just them and they get a lot of flack for things that are not their fault.


On Final Odds/Payoffs:
In the large majority of times final odds are calculated by the tote systems within 2-5 seconds of post time. However as above.. most endpoints CANNOT update that fast.

That said, there are times that they drag out and in most situations there is a very legitimate reason for the delay. Usually internet issues between the host and one or more remote systems. (I'm not sure what it is today.. but when I was in tote some hosts could have 40+ remote systems connected to an event)

Most hosts will wait 10-20 seconds before they start kicking out slow remotes.

However, I've also seen tracks keep slow/poor connection remotes in day after day when there was only a few hundred dollars of handle and they were the known source of problems. In those cases they should be thrown out and not allowed back in for X weeks before trying again.

In the end.. I think this is another case where transparency and openess would go a LONG way. Tote systems AND tracks have a long way to go about explaining issues bettors see, why they happen and what is being done to fix them. There is a LOT going on. I think a lot more can be done, but their is a big disconnect between actuality and perception even now.



And on free data (the actual topic?):
1. I think all commercial entities (ADWs/Other PP providers/etc..) should pay for data as they do now, but I believe the prices are a bit high (for independents anyway).

2. I think their should be a system in place where customers and potential developers can access RAW metrics/statistics for free as long as its non-commercial use. The moment someone sells a product they should start paying. This could enable innovation through new products (Robin Howlett's Handycapper would probably still exist)

3. I think the price on MOST forms of for sale data should be significantly lower than current. However, some of the premium products are currently priced well if not low.

4. I think commercial entities that create value added products (advanced PPs, analytical programs etc..) should work primarily off of a low percent royalty fee with no or EXTREMELY small minimums.

5. I think the amount of statistics and data we currently collect as an industry is woefully inadequate. Where is heart rate? Breathing rate? Real time MPH/KPH per runner? Accurate times on every runner? Width out from rail? Step counts? Impact metering? What can be done vs what is done is just insane and it SHOULD NOT be expensive to collect. Go to the college's that currently work with the industry and give them a couple hundred grand to dream it up. You'll be shocked what comes back..
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:41 AM   #18
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Losers who can't afford data probably shouldn't be playing in the first place. It's a nice reality check.
Or, that could be $1500 dollars more bet be capita per year.
A lot of people still go to track for fun - older, retired people who bet may $20 a day a couple of times week.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:43 AM   #19
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Or, that could be $1500 dollars more bet be capita per year.
A lot of people still go to track for fun - older, retired people who bet may $20 a day a couple of times week.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:44 AM   #20
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Churn rate on average per $ deposited is between 2x and 3x so that $1500 spent on data would actually be $3,000 to $4,500 if wagered.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:45 PM   #21
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I'm not a big-time gambler, but I can definitely say I'd play more races if the data were free.

Hell, it doesn't have to be free. More affordable would be a good start.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:48 PM   #22
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I'm not a big-time gambler, but I can definitely say I'd play more races if the data were free.

Hell, it doesn't have to be free. More affordable would be a good start.
BINGO...
I think most casual up to moderate volume horse players would hold the same sentiment
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:36 PM   #23
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Money paid for data is not churned.
Money bet is.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:46 PM   #24
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Take that same premise further.

Any dollar spent prior to a customer getting to the window to bet is $2.50 less in handle. Hope that $5 hotdog is better than 12.50 in handle...
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