Senate ObamaCare bill is dead

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Voters.


I agree. What I object to is Trump using bully tactics to punish Congressional staffers to get his way because he can't cut a deal with 50 Senators. The president's job is to administer and enforce the law, not to make the law.

If Congress screwed up on the original bill, there are lots of ways to fix it without using it as a blunt weapon while throwing a tantrum.

So...it was okay for Obama to create a law because of Congress' stupidity but not okay for Trump to undo Obama's EO?

Seems to me that what's good for the voters (employer) should be good enough for all employees (including staff). What makes the employees better than the employer?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...it was okay for Obama to create a law because of Congress' stupidity but not okay for Trump to undo Obama's EO?

Nice straw man argument. Where did I say that the initial action was okay?

I said that staff people who took a job in good faith as to pay and benefits should not lose those benefits solely because of a pissing contest between the president and the Congress.

Seems to me that what's good for the voters (employer) should be good enough for all employees (including staff). What makes the employees better than the employer?

Another straw man. So if I owe stock in a company and get to vote on top management, I should automatically have a better health care plan than they do?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Nice straw man argument. Where did I say that the initial action was okay?

I said that staff people who took a job in good faith as to pay and benefits should not lose those benefits solely because of a pissing contest between the president and the Congress.

If they lose the benefits, it won't be because of a "pissing contest". It will be due to Congress' own stupidity. After all, they passed a bill that none of them understood because very few of them actually took the time and effort to read it. Congress shot its own staff. And you haven't told me why Congress should be included with the staff!

Another straw man. So if I owe stock in a company and get to vote on top management, I should automatically have a better health care plan than they do?

What are you talking about!?

And one more thing: Only as an ideal, would anyone ever consider voters to be the bosses of Congress. That ideal only flies before an election but after an election it doesn't take Congress critters long to show the voters who the real boss is. Congress critters first and formemost have their own re-election in mind vitually 24/7 and are always working toward that goal. You, sir, have created the real straw man by claiming that voters are Congress' employer. In theory, yes. But in the real world of the DC swampland -- no way Jose!

I truly hope that Trump makes good on his threat to cut the swamp rats off from the welfare rolls! They have no business being on there in the first place. It's not as though they can't afford to pay their own way! And this goes for the staff as well. If the staff was out in the real world, making what they make in D.C., they would not be eligible for subsidies.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And one more thing: Only as an ideal, would anyone ever consider voters to be the bosses of Congress.

Who else can fire them? I didn't say that they were effective bosses.

If the staff was out in the real world, making what they make in D.C., they would not be eligible for subsidies.

Out in the real world, employer provided insurance is a benefit, but in the government it is a subsidy? This ain't the religion thread, where people make up their own definitions.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Who else can fire them? I didn't say that they were effective bosses.

Out in the real world, employer provided insurance is a benefit, but in the government it is a subsidy? This ain't the religion thread, where people make up their own definitions.

Yes, in the real world health care insurance is a benefit [b]but not one that is subsidized to the tune of 73% by the employer! In today's world, the employee is very fortunate to get the employer to chip in half the cost! And it's not very likely that an employer is going to provide for his employees plans on the "platinum" level that is top notch and one, if I recall correctly, whereby the insured has either zero deductible or a very low deductible. Platinums are bought only by the well-heeled or the well-subsidized. Or do you think that welfare recipient or a p/t min. wager earner is going to get a subsidized Platinum plan from the government? Just sayin'....

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Nice straw man argument. Where did I say that the initial action was okay?

I said that staff people who took a job in good faith as to pay and benefits should not lose those benefits solely because of a pissing contest between the president and the Congress.


Another straw man. So if I owe stock in a company and get to vote on top management, I should automatically have a better health care plan than they do?

why shouldn't they? most of the american people have had their health care changed for the worse since obamacare was enacted.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by chadk66

most of the american people have had their health care changed for the worse since obamacare was enacted.

And what have the Republicans done about that since taking the House, the Senate and the White House some six months ago?

As far as I can tell, none of those three entities are seriously talking to one another.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Clocker

And what have the Republicans done about that since taking the House, the Senate and the White House some six months ago?

As far as I can tell, none of those three entities are seriously talking to one another.

they've done nothing. that's why more Trump type R's will be elected in the mid terms.

[Nutz and Boltz]

An excerpt from "Quora" ,a question and answer site,regarding repeal and replace

Seven years have passed since Congress passed the ACA. Why didn't the Republicans have a replacement ready on day one of Trump's presidency?


Answered Jul 17
While it’s easy to say that the Republican Party is the party of No, there’s another factor that they really, really don’t want you looking at: the federal leaders of the GOP, the political party of phrases such as hard work and rugged individualism, are generally and collectively really, really lazy when it comes to governing.

Trashing a piece of legislation passed by your opponents is really, really easy. You just talk. That’s all it takes. If that’s all you need to do to win an election, and you’re lazy, then that’s what you do: you call it a horrible bill and call it a day.

Writing this kind of legislation is hard work, really hard work. You need to research what parts of what laws you’re removing, what parts you’re modifying, figuring out the unintended consequences because other laws refer to the law you’re changing… it all takes money and time to write and research and edit, weeks and months and even years of work by dedicated employees who don’t expect to work for nothing. If you don’t need to do it to win an election, and you’re lazy, you don’t do it. You just talk about the horrible legislation the other people passed and call it a day.

You do this because you don’t have the authority to change this horrible bill because your opponents are in the way. If you don’t have the authority, and can’t get past the opposition, and you’re lazy, you don’t really plan ahead. You don’t have to do anything because you don’t have the authority now and nobody expects you to have the authority to do it. Repeal and replace is all you have to say because you’ve talked up the importance of repeal of that horrible, horrible law. You do that and call it a day. Why work on replace when you don’t have to?

Until suddenly you have the authority. You’d been so used to not having the authority and just yapping about what a bad bill it was that you got complacent. Talking down the bill became a good way to drum up votes. But now you can’t just call it a day.

You’re in charge now. You don’t have any sort of replacement in hand because it was easier to talk than to write. And the more people learn what you’re talking about repealing, the less they want you to repeal all of it, or even any of it. That’s not a good day for you.

You could just fix it, but you’ve said for years that it’s a horrible bill that needs to be swept aside and completely replaced, that no fix of any kind could ever work. You didn’t even bother to think about major or even minor fixes. Thinking takes time and energy, and you just want to call it a day already!

After seven years of taking the lazy route, now the Republicans have to work on their legislation, really work. And they aren’t used to it. They just want to call it a day.

This is why they weren’t ready. They’re like the loud, slow dog that somehow caught the speeding car by the rear bumper and doesn’t know what to do with it now. Now they have something to do at the end of the day and it’s taking a lot of work. Burying a rear bumper takes a lot less time than writing sweeping healthcare reform.

They can sort of handle being called the Party of No, but what they really fear is being called The Lazy Party—they’re all about work, doncha know!

Other people’s work. Not theirs. They called it a day years ago and now the boss caught them playing Farmville instead of writing code.

They were not expecting President Trump. Neither were the rest of us, but now they have to work. It puts a real crimp in their golf and fundraising schedules.

[Tom]

What I object to is Trump using bully tactics to punish Congressional staffers

Screw the staffers.
Who the hell are THEY to get any special deals?
Staffers should be volunteers and get $0 from the taxpayers.

Maybe if worthless stiffs like McCain had to do REAL work, they would do us all a favor and retire. He can't write his own lies???

Get rid of congress and their ridiculous staffs and budgets and we could ALL have FREE health care.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by chadk66

they've done nothing. that's why more Trump type R's will be elected in the mid terms.

Trump would have to be a R first!

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Trump would have to be a R first!

The truth is that the President did not play according to their rules and won, he will continue to not play how they say and win again. The fact is we are all better off that Hillary Clinton got beat, her party is now of the filthy rich. Sure there are plenty of folks like yourself who do not make out so well, there are winners and losers in the minutia associated in both outcomes. Those who believe in the Clinton garbage feels the worst, and there are those who are in business and her policy's are better for their business. Overall everyone is better off she did not win and we are not raising everyone's taxes, the debate is how much taxes we will cut instead. Time will not be kind to the Clinton's but they have all that ill gotten money to spend, heck her daughter is even worth 30 million. Without influence to sell they would all have nothing, pay for play treated them well so far.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by fast4522

The truth is that the President did not play according to their rules and won, he will continue to not play how they say and win again. The fact is we are all better off that Hillary Clinton got beat, her party is now of the filthy rich. Sure there are plenty of folks like yourself who do not make out so well, there are winners and losers in the minutia associated in both outcomes. Those who believe in the Clinton garbage feels the worst, and there are those who are in business and her policy's are better for their business. Overall everyone is better off she did not win and we are not raising everyone's taxes, the debate is how much taxes we will cut instead. Time will not be kind to the Clinton's but they have all that ill gotten money to spend, heck her daughter is even worth 30 million. Without influence to sell they would all have nothing, pay for play treated them well so far.

You rich? Just more lies. Let's get Pence in from the bullpen already.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...427-story.html

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by jms62

You rich? Just more lies. Let's get Pence in from the bullpen already.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...427-story.html

Do not pin all your hopes and dreams on that one, it will waste money and in the end go nowhere. If you think we will tax the rich more, don't hold your breath. Tax cuts are aimed across the board aimed at making jobs come back, not solving the worlds problems with the poor.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by fast4522

Do not pin all your hopes and dreams on that one, it will waste money and in the end go nowhere. If you think we will tax the rich more, don't hold your breath. Tax cuts are aimed across the board aimed at making jobs come back, not solving the worlds problems with the poor.

Across the board? I guess we as middle class are off the board. Not unlike Trumpsters that read his pps and still bet him. If you think companies will bring jobs back and not pass this on to reward upper management then you completely slept through the Bank Bailouts. This time will be different though because a guy who is a pathalogical liar knew what you wanted to hear and said it. I think not. The sooner Pence takes over the better.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a4034ddacabe