View Poll Results: Who wins HOY? Accelerate or Justify?
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Accelerate wins HOY
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119 |
42.35% |
Justify wins HOY
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162 |
57.65% |
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12-17-2018, 08:53 PM
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#241
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Spaghetti Junction and Frustration Blvd.
Posts: 1,904
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What Justify did while never racing as a 2 year old was nothing short of historic and astounding. It may be something that doesn't occur if racing were to be around another 100 years. It was awesome!
HOTY hands Down!! Really like Accelerate and John Sadler, but, not in a year with what Justify accomplished.
__________________
Warm Regards,
Vinnie
"All Human error is impatience; a premature renunciation of method"- F. Kafka
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12-17-2018, 09:09 PM
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#242
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Over the course of his entire stud career assuming he stays healthy?
Shuttling?
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Not unless he turns out to be a Storm Cat or Seattle Slew. The odds are very slim for any stallion to be the next one of those.
This particular horse has already been split into so many parts, none of them would reap too much. WinStar is the one who likely made out the best, with each new owner paying full retail price.
I’d love to see Sol’s books. I bet with the prices he must be paying, that he’s seriously in the red despite the hits.
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12-17-2018, 09:10 PM
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#243
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron
Did Secretariat win hoy as a two year old ?
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Yes. And he would’ve had his head handed to him had he run in open company as a 2yo.
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12-17-2018, 09:13 PM
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#244
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie
What Justify did while never racing as a 2 year old was nothing short of historic and astounding. It may be something that doesn't occur if racing were to be around another 100 years. It was awesome!
HOTY hands Down!! Really like Accelerate and John Sadler, but, not in a year with what Justify accomplished.
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You do realize that could speak of the lack of competition more than anything else? The numbers seem to back that up as well.
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12-17-2018, 09:31 PM
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#245
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
You bet I was. No 2yo is ever the best horse who ran that year.
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The voters really got it wrong that year apparently. The 2yo filly La Prevoyante (unbeaten in 12 starts) was runner up in the voting.
Coincidentally, only 9 months later, the then 3yo Secretariat buried both Key To The Mint and Riva Ridge (presumably better choices for HOY?) in the Marlboro Cup in record time for 9 furlongs.
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12-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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#246
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Spaghetti Junction and Frustration Blvd.
Posts: 1,904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
You do realize that could speak of the lack of competition more than anything else? The numbers seem to back that up as well.
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I saw him when he ran his first Maiden Race and knew that he was something Very Special.
__________________
Warm Regards,
Vinnie
"All Human error is impatience; a premature renunciation of method"- F. Kafka
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12-17-2018, 09:48 PM
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#247
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Not unless he turns out to be a Storm Cat or Seattle Slew. The odds are very slim for any stallion to be the next one of those.
This particular horse has already been split into so many parts, none of them would reap too much. WinStar is the one who likely made out the best, with each new owner paying full retail price.
I’d love to see Sol’s books. I bet with the prices he must be paying, that he’s seriously in the red despite the hits.
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Well if they need the money that makes them just like the rest of us who have lives, mortgages and families.
Not money grubbing parasite's Dilane.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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12-17-2018, 09:53 PM
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#248
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Not unless he turns out to be a Storm Cat or Seattle Slew. The odds are very slim for any stallion to be the next one of those.
This particular horse has already been split into so many parts, none of them would reap too much. WinStar is the one who likely made out the best, with each new owner paying full retail price.
I’d love to see Sol’s books. I bet with the prices he must be paying, that he’s seriously in the red despite the hits.
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Sol ( and Jack Wolf ) didn't buy any part of his breeding rights. They no longer own any part of Justify.
Both made money on the Justify/Audible deal.
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12-18-2018, 12:23 AM
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#249
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Well if they need the money that makes them just like the rest of us who have lives, mortgages and families.
Not money grubbing parasite's Dilane.
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Yes, I’m sure they’d have a problem feeding the family if they chose to race him another year.
I’m with Dilan on this one. No matter how you slice it, everything about the huge partnership to not racing past the Belmont is destructive to the sport.
Last edited by Fager Fan; 12-18-2018 at 12:25 AM.
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12-18-2018, 12:27 AM
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#250
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
Sol ( and Jack Wolf ) didn't buy any part of his breeding rights. They no longer own any part of Justify.
Both made money on the Justify/Audible deal.
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We know Coolmore owns all now.
But I’d still love to see Sol’d books. It’s not hard at all to buy a piece of every top horse out there. One simply has to overpay to do it.
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12-18-2018, 07:15 AM
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#251
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
We know Coolmore owns all now.
But I’d still love to see Sol’d books. It’s not hard at all to buy a piece of every top horse out there. One simply has to overpay to do it.
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Once again, Sol NEVER owned any of Justify's breeding rights, not before Coolmore bought into the horse, and not after.
What I posted had nothing to do with Coolmore. It's OK that you didn't know what you were talking about. You rarely do. Just as you don't know that "Coolmore owns all now."
Sol hardly buys into every top horse....and frankly, which owner do you think is making a profit?
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12-18-2018, 08:10 AM
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#252
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
Once again, Sol NEVER owned any of Justify's breeding rights, not before Coolmore bought into the horse, and not after.
What I posted had nothing to do with Coolmore. It's OK that you didn't know what you were talking about. You rarely do. Just as you don't know that "Coolmore owns all now."
Sol hardly buys into every top horse....and frankly, which owner do you think is making a profit?
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I never said that he DID own any breeding rights. I said I’d love to see his books given he’s buying into so many made horses, and everyone knows that the price is at a premium when you do that.
What’s up your craw? Besides the usual that seems to reside in your craw?
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12-18-2018, 10:11 AM
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#253
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I never said that he DID own any breeding rights. I said I’d love to see his books given he’s buying into so many made horses, and everyone knows that the price is at a premium when you do that.
What’s up your craw? Besides the usual that seems to reside in your craw?
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Here's the post I responded to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Not unless he turns out to be a Storm Cat or Seattle Slew. The odds are very slim for any stallion to be the next one of those.
This particular horse has already been split into so many parts, none of them would reap too much. WinStar is the one who likely made out the best, with each new owner paying full retail price.
I’d love to see Sol’s books. I bet with the prices he must be paying, that he’s seriously in the red despite the hits.
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In this post you start by discussing ( poorly, but discussing nonetheless ) Justify's potential stallion value. You follow by saying he was split into "so many parts" that the owners are unlikely to make much money. Then you follow by saying you would like to see Sol's books. While this is a cumbersome stream of conscious, I don't think it's illogical to suggest you didn't understand Sol's original deal. Thus, I clarified it for you.
A simple "thanks" would have been enough. You could have added "oh, I got that wrong" but we all know you could NEVER do that. So, instead, you are on attack.
You're too easy.
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12-18-2018, 11:06 AM
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#254
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Well if they need the money that makes them just like the rest of us who have lives, mortgages and families.
Not money grubbing parasite's Dilane.
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Winstar does not need the money.
And more importantly, is this your vision of a healthy sport? Where the breeding industry controls everything and good horses run 6 times and then retire untested?
Last edited by dilanesp; 12-18-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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12-18-2018, 12:15 PM
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#255
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Winstar does not need the money.
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Maybe the people controlling Winstar don't need money in for their personal lives, but certainly the farm itself needs money to continue to operate and stay competitive at the sales as buyers.
It's a bloated stallion operation with 20+ stallions most of whom are unproven. The major sires there--Tiznow, Distorted Humor, and More Than Ready--are in their twenties and unlikely to be around in 5 years time. That leaves Pioneerof The Nile and perhaps Speightstown (whose petered out somewhat) to hold up the mantle in an uncertain future. Part of those future plans collapsed earlier this year when it was discovered that major purchase Battle of Midway was sub fertile.
On the bright side, Fed Biz has gotten a couple of nice looking prospects but they certainly can't bank on him developing from a $10K stallion to six figures unless lightning strikes.
At any rate, Winstar did not retire Justify because they decided to sell him to Coolmore. He was always going to be retired at 3 as soon as he crossed the wire first in the Belmont...and probably even before that.
Quote:
And more importantly, is this your vision of a healthy sport? Where the breeding industry controls everything and good horses run 6 times and then retire untested?
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Unfortunately, the Robert Sangster niche model of developing stallions and not racehorses has gone from a spark to a conflagration. What's worse is that his idea that only 2yo form is needed to justify entry into the stallion ranks has also taken hold and made things a million times worse for the quality of racing.
Thus the sport of Thoroughbred racing conducts its business based on ephemeral notions like "promise" and "potential" (which should be restricted to the shed row) instead of proven ability and tangible accomplishments.
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