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Old 10-22-2020, 01:12 AM   #16
jay68802
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Feels like they are chasing at this point, these kind are ones I avoid.
Tough call on this, IMO, this is a perfect distance for this horse. That said, this horse is not a "cup of tea" right now. Money burner in the Pick em's, a toss in the exacta's.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:15 AM   #17
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I'm still waiting for the graded stakes committee to downgrade this to a Grade 2. There isn't really a mile division anyways. There are only 2 other Grade 1 miles the rest of the year and one is run 5 months before the BC and the other one is after the BC (when the BC is supposed to be the championship event).

The race at best serves as a springboard to up-and-coming types (Gun Runner, Accelerate, Liam's Map, City of Light), a prime opportunity for Grade 2/Grade 3 types (Dakota Phone, Tapizar, Furtherst Land), or a last ditch effort for horses on the downward slope (Dortmund, Discreet Cat, Omaha Beach).

At worse it takes away from the BC Sprint and the Classic (and even the turf Mile when it ran on synthetics).

The sad part is, horses retire partially on the strength of the win (Liam's Map, City of Light).

At any rate, in addition to this dreaded trend of training "up to the BC", what's with these Thanksgiving weekend races suddenly becoming alternatives to running in the BC (as opposed to running in both)?

I would think if Art Collector showed any form in the Dirt Mile they would run him back in the Clark, Cigar Mile, or Hollywood Derby.
City of light was not a grade 2 horse.

The dirt mile should remain a grade one.

Allan
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:51 AM   #18
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City of light was not a grade 2 horse.

The dirt mile should remain a grade one.

Allan
I don't think he was a Grade 2 horse, either. He beat HOY Accelerate twice on the square at 9f. The horse was raced sparingly in the summer and fall and clearly used the Dirt Mile as a springboard to the Pegasus Cup.

He should have been in the Classic if he was in top form.

Instead we got to see him win a dubious BC race followed by a dubious "World's Richest Race" and on the strength of those two wins they were able to pull the plug on his racing career because the stallion advertisement was complete.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:19 AM   #19
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Something is wrong when Preakness winners, Hollywood Gold Cup winners, Travers winners, Woodward winners, Whitney winners, Donn winners, and Haskell winners are skipping the Classic to run in the Big Ass Dirt Mile...never mind all the Forego winners, Triple Bend winners, Ancient Title winners, DeFrancis Dash winners, skipping the Sprint.
You can't have it both ways.

You can't say the Dirt Mile is not a Grade 1 event (which it clearly is) and complain that too many Grade 1 winners are skipping the Classic and Sprint to run in the Mile.

Again, I agree with you that it has some downsides in that it attracts horses away from championship races like the Sprint and Classic. Yet, I'd be willing to bet more breeders are interested in the Mile winner than the Sprint winner. So maybe we should eliminate the Sprint and Sprinter of the Year and/or create a new Eclipse Award for Miler of the Year?

Some horses are "Milers". We have a BC Turf Mile.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:35 AM   #20
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They used to breed to race. Now they breed to breed. Pay a ton for a horse. Run once or twice. Then retire with an excuse and get your money back + in the shed. Because after all he’s “ well bred”.

Race to race> race to breed> breed to race> breed to breed = I already have other hobbies that are bumping racing off my radar. I give it one more year after this BC and then I am calling what I once thought was a lifetime engagement quits.
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
Tough call on this, IMO, this is a perfect distance for this horse. That said, this horse is not a "cup of tea" right now. Money burner in the Pick em's, a toss in the exacta's.
same here

I 'tossed' him in the Preakness. He had never really caught my eye, so why take a short price?

It's possible I was actually wrong, and he is a grade 1 type, and just had a bad day, with having pointed to the Derby, and a setback, and really running into a race (Preakness) with two grade 1 efforts....

I'll be betting against again, should he take money, but there's some chance he could run a good race.
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:47 PM   #22
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You can't have it both ways.

You can't say the Dirt Mile is not a Grade 1 event (which it clearly is) and complain that too many Grade 1 winners are skipping the Classic and Sprint to run in the Mile.
Sure I can. I said multiple times that the race often features top class horses on the decline or out of form. Most of those were winners of the races listed above. That's why we get treated to midwest Derby winners (i.e., Grade 3 horses) and 7yo non-stakes winning geldings winning the race.

Simply put, they shouldn't have been in the BC if they weren't in form and if they were, they ought to have been in the Classic or Sprint.

Dortmund and Runhappy in 2016 were quintessential examples.

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Again, I agree with you that it has some downsides in that it attracts horses away from championship races like the Sprint and Classic. Yet, I'd be willing to bet more breeders are interested in the Mile winner than the Sprint winner. So maybe we should eliminate the Sprint and Sprinter of the Year and/or create a new Eclipse Award for Miler of the Year?
Are you really concerned with what the breeders are interested in?

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Some horses are "Milers". We have a BC Turf Mile.
Yes, that's why I specified dirt. There isn't much of a division for the dirt milers, though. Unless you want to buy into the scam by the BC making all the relevant 7 furlong races into "Dirt Mile Win-and-In" events.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:03 AM   #23
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Why should anybody care if the race belongs in the BC. Or what it’s graded. All that matters is if it’s a full field and a good betting race.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:39 AM   #24
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Why should anybody care if the race belongs in the BC. Or what it’s graded. All that matters is if it’s a full field and a good betting race.
From a purely gambling perspective, your right.

But some people are interested in the sport and how it's conducted, not the product.
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:44 AM   #25
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From a purely gambling perspective, your right.

But some people are interested in the sport and how it's conducted, not the product.
Ok
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:41 PM   #26
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I was glad they reduced the Marathon to a G2 and don't call it a BC race anymore.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:02 PM   #27
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Are you really concerned with what the breeders are interested in?
We'll have to agree to disagree.

1. I think if you look at the average Grade 1 race throughout the year the BC Mile has been a Grade 1 caliber race. It's not nearly as high a quality race as the Classic which I see as more of Grade 1+ or Grade 1++, but it's Grade 1. It's kind of like comparing one of the Grade 1 Derby preps to the Kentucky Derby. Both are Grade 1s, but one is a national race that draws all the major prep winners from everywhere so it's better than the average Grade 1.

2. I think some horses are better suited to an 8F race than 6F or 10F. I have no problem with a BC race for those horses. I think that's a good thing.

3. I think the BC Mile takes some horses away from the Sprint and Classic, but they are mostly horses that would be hard pressed to deliver their best at 6F or 10F or not good enough to be considered major contenders in the Classic which is typically ultra strong. The latter doesn't mean they are mediocre horses.

4. I have a problem with the occasional horse that would have been a major contender in the Classic that ducks it looking for an easier spot to preserve the horse's reputation. But IMO, that doesn't happen too often. Most guys shoot for the big prize if they have a serious contender.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:10 PM   #28
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I was glad they reduced the Marathon to a G2 and don't call it a BC race anymore.
I'm not even sure The Marathon should be Graded. At best it's typically a Grade 3.
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Old 10-23-2020, 04:58 PM   #29
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Why should anybody care if the race belongs in the BC. Or what it’s graded. All that matters is if it’s a full field and a good betting race.
Can I get an AMEN, Bruther?
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Old 10-23-2020, 04:59 PM   #30
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I'm not even sure The Marathon should be Graded. At best it's typically a Grade 3.
What, now you don't want to reward STAMINA?
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