Is NY ever going to introduce a pick five?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by jelly

Incompetents,having we established that?

Regarding who? NYRA or your thoughts on NYRA?

You can criticize NYRA for various things, but not asking for a pick-5 because of incompetence is not one of them.

Do you think they don't realize the bet exists? That people haven't been asking for it?

Give your head a shake and think logically for once. Don't let your emotions get the better of you.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This thread probably would have gone away quickly if someone with knowledge of the situation was able to say that NYRA was evaluating the Pick 5, doing some internal studies, etc.. but even if it's determined that they would like to add it to the betting menu, it would take some time because of the politics and logistics.

Without that, it sort of evolved into a debate over the merits of the pick 5 as if NYRA doesn't want it when that may not be the case.

This is true in part but a rather silly way to approach it. Making public anything that is in negotiation can get you in a lot of trouble. From fans if it falls through and from regulators for making discussions public in a state where no govt action is public. To announce something before it is finalized can only result in bad outcomes. Thus let's take off the tin hats and deal with the reality of the situation.

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

This is true in part but a rather silly way to approach it. Making public anything that is in negotiation can get you in a lot of trouble. From fans if it falls through and from regulators for making discussions public in a state where no govt action is public. To announce something before it is finalized can only result in bad outcomes. Thus let's take off the tin hats and deal with the reality of the situation.

It's sad that NYRA has to negotiate to add a bet that has been a life saver for CA and has been a hit everywhere it's been added. It's ridiculous that the tracks can't just decide whatever bets they want to offer, whenever they want.

I bet if it was up to NYRA to make the rules(or say Saratoga/Belmont/Aqueduct making the rules on their own), they'd all have a .50 cent P5 starting in the first race. Too much red tape in this industry.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Charli125

It's sad that NYRA has to negotiate to add a bet that has been a life saver for CA and has been a hit everywhere it's been added. It's ridiculous that the tracks can't just decide whatever bets they want to offer, whenever they want.

I bet if it was up to NYRA to make the rules(or say Saratoga/Belmont/Aqueduct making the rules on their own), they'd all have a .50 cent P5 starting in the first race. Too much red tape in this industry.

To be clear, I don't know if they have or haven't. Personally I couldn't care less on this one for already stated reasons. But this is the process they face and given current circumstance, any moving forward must be difficult, moreso than even a few months ago. Such negotiation has had to happen in the past and the one I know that has been openly discussed in the press is NYRA run OTBs which they have been trying to do for some time and have not yet gotten there. It's why I snap back at the standard and unthinking "why don't they just...." posters

[Cholly]

Maybe not $300k - $400k but a lot more handle then the pick 6 pool in NY when there is not a carryover like Saturday's pick 6 handle of $72,481.

Hollywood .50 pick 5 handle for:

Thursday --------- $191,439
Friday------------- $277,775
Saturday---------- $267,207


________
David-LV[/QUOTE]

Those amounts are not chump change. But they’re impressive only if they are part of an overall rising handle. Are they?

Imagine plotting a graph with the number of menu offerings (i.e., types of wagers allowed) on the x-axis and total sales on the y. With almost all products/services, you will find a modified bell curve. Total sales will rise with each increased option only to a certain point, then there will be a decline in total sales as each new menu item is added. It results from the customer becoming confused by the increasingly complex decision of which product to choose, resulting in their spending less (or nothing). Well, at least that’s what the professors in B-school taught us, and they had lots of studies to back it up.

I’m not necessarily saying that either New York or Cali has reached the point where each new product offering is more likely to hurt rather than help total sales…but there is a point where that would occur. Concern of that phenomenon would play into any decisions they made.

But I’ll grant your point that when considered in the grand scheme of things, the Pick 6 pools are anemic…usually less than half of the smallest trifecta pool all day. It makes one wonder if the hype and promotion accorded to the P6 is out of proportion.

[the little guy]

The impact of the Pick-6 is not measured in a non-carryover pool.

[Cholly]

Originally Posted by the little guy

The impact of the Pick-6 is not measured in a non-carryover pool.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way--I'm just am curious: If over a twelve month period you lump all the carry-over and non-carry-over pools together, what is the average per day?

[jelly]

On Dec 17 2011 Hollywood Park had a $183,593 Player’s Pick 5 carryover.The next day It had a pool of $1,226,324.


On May 8 2011 Hollywood Park had a $107,487 Pick 5 carryover.The next racing day an additional $799,630 was wagered.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

This is true in part but a rather silly way to approach it. Making public anything that is in negotiation can get you in a lot of trouble. From fans if it falls through and from regulators for making discussions public in a state where no govt action is public. To announce something before it is finalized can only result in bad outcomes. Thus let's take off the tin hats and deal with the reality of the situation.

I don't recall suggesting that someone reveal a detailed analysis of where negotiations are or to make promises of eventually implementing it.

A simple "We are interested in the Pick 5 and are looking into that and other popular bets" would have put it to rest. If even that much is not possible, a lot of people are going to assume there is no interest and complain (as you can see in this thread).

I'm not sure where the tin hat comment came from.

I couldn't give a rats ass if there is a Pick 5 or not, but it's obviously popular with many people, especially those that don't feel they have the bankroll to play the Pick 6 properly. And those that prefer the playing Pick 6 carryovers would probably be against it because it would dilute their advantage. I know I would be against it if I was a Pick 6 specialist. So there may be conflicting interests among customers.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by jelly

On Dec 17 2011 Hollywood Park had a $183,593 Player’s Pick 5 carryover.The next day It had a pool of $1,226,324.


On May 8 2011 Hollywood Park had a $107,487 Pick 5 carryover.The next racing day an additional $799,630 was wagered.

NYRA is not in California.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by Tom

NYRA is not in California.

NYRA might not be California, but the .50 pick 5 has worked everywhere it has been implemented.

So I say let's give it a chance starting with Saratoga and see what happens.

_______
David-LV

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Here's what's amazing, it's not the usual " I want something, NYRA doesn't have it, therefore they suck " silliness that frequents this board. It's the stubborn refusal to even entertain the possibility that there may be more than meets the eye as to why changes aren't implemented instantaneously, despite having frequently seen why this doesn't happen.

This comes across like a load of verbal diarrhea.

I'm really sick of hearing what can't been done.

How about we post solutions.

________
David-LV

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by David-LV

This comes across like a load of verbal diarrhea.

I'm really sick of hearing what can't been done.

How about we post solutions.

________
David-LV

Well, you are an authority on verbal diarrhea.

You are also completely clueless about everything else.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Well, you are an authority on verbal diarrhea.

You are also completely clueless about everything else.

I rest my case !

_______
David-LV

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by David-LV

This comes across like a load of verbal diarrhea.

I'm really sick of hearing what can't been done.

How about we post solutions.

________
David-LV

You mean solutions like what Monmouth did two years ago that you championed as the greatest thing done in racing? You know, the thing that nearly destroyed them? I'm afraid your solution process is suspect at best, especially when you don't want to listen to people like TLG who actually know what is going on, but then you'd rather base your opinions on uninformed wish lists from people that have no idea what it takes to do things. "Why don't they just....." indeed.

Real solutions take time and effort and have failures along the way. If you really want something good, don't count on it happening soon and given certain political climates, don't count on them at all. Then if it is done, you can be pleasantly surprised, if you can take time from complaining.