Joel Rosario in New York

[Producer]

Originally Posted by ten2oneormore

That may be true but who is he going to take mounts from?

Dominguez=No
Castellano=No
Johhny V=No
C Val=Still going to get L Rice's live ones
Castro=Still gets McLaughlin's live ones if not Garcia or Maragh
Lezcano=Gets C Clement's live ones if not then Leparoux
J Alvarado=Has been building relationships for 2 years
Rosie=Don't see how anyone could be disappointed with her.


I guess like someone said he could try to get the Ramsey horses but Castellano has been riding quite a bit for Maker.

Going to be tough

Does anybody really think any of these guys, including Ramon, is a better rider than Rosario? I sure as hell don't. It's going to take time but I have no doubt Rosario will be the top rider on any circuit he wants, including NY. Rosario and Bajarano are the cream of the crop, not just in Cali, but in the country. And I'm a Florida boy who has followed East Coast racing from the time I was a child. It just is what it is, though.

[Karakiozis]

Originally Posted by Producer

Does anybody really think any of these guys, including Ramon, is a better rider than Rosario? I sure as hell don't. It's going to take time but I have no doubt Rosario will be the top rider on any circuit he wants, including NY. Rosario and Bajarano are the cream of the crop, not just in Cali, but in the country. And I'm a Florida boy who has followed East Coast racing from the time I was a child. It just is what it is, though.

Time will tell, IMO tail between legs and back to 5 horse fields in the minors in CA.

[Tom]

He's liable to get lost in the big 6 horse fields we have here!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

That's probably the key here. Do you know when Cordero rode in Cali and for how long?

He was seriously injured in a spill at the end of December,1987. He rode at Toga that August, so he couldn't have been there too long.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Producer

Does anybody really think any of these guys, including Ramon, is a better rider than Rosario? I sure as hell don't. It's going to take time but I have no doubt Rosario will be the top rider on any circuit he wants, including NY. Rosario and Bajarano are the cream of the crop, not just in Cali, but in the country. And I'm a Florida boy who has followed East Coast racing from the time I was a child. It just is what it is, though.

Dominguez is a much better rider than Rosario. While Rosario is a fine rider, he shows no willingness whatsoever to save ground, is very average riding speed, and has not distinguished himself in big race opportunities.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Exactly my point. This was never about the relative strengths of the two curcuits and talents of the riders. If I had to choose I'd lean towards the east because of a greater number of elite riders and stiffer competition.

What I am trying to say is Joel has achieved #1 status here therefore I see no reason to leave. He makes a boatlod of money. Always top 5 in the country. He is relivant on both the Derby Trail and Breeders Cup and he lives in IMO the greatest place in the country to not only reside but to ride.

A situation that I think almost any rider would be thrilled to achieve.

While reading these posts I admit two points have come up that I didn't totally think through. First, the desire to explore and conquer new challenges. I totally get that. I remember when I felt that way. Jimmy Carter was president but I do remember. Secondly, I know for an absolute fact that he could leave for as long as he wants and come back to the exact same status. Very nice place to be.

Joel is super talented. He'll get even better riding on the east coast and Kentucky because of the depth of the colony and more importantly field sizes. That part alone will force him to make adjustments that will force him to get even better.

It'll be fun to see how he does. Wonder how long it'll take Raffie to get all the bugs off his teeth. Joe, Martin and Go Go too.

I think you answered your own question Vic.Why wouldn't a young jock want to get better?



You better be nice to Andy,the way things are going out in California you might need him for a Job referral

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Dominguez is a much better rider than Rosario. While Rosario is a fine rider, he shows no willingness whatsoever to save ground, is very average riding speed, and has not distinguished himself in big race opportunities.

Much better I think not!!

I watch tons of replays daily, and still play both harness and thoroughbreds 3 to 5 day a week and in my 50+ years of handicapping which started at Roosevelt Raceway in the fall of 1957 and having owned both many thoroughbreds & standardbreds throughout my many years.

I personally think in harness racing the Driver is about 20%, the Trip 20%, and the Horse is about 60%.

In thoroughbred racing Jockey about 5%, the Trip 15%, and the Horse 80%.

Either Dominguez or Rosario will get the job done when on the best Horse, that is the 80% that I spoke about above.

The agent is the key ingredient when it comes down to the elite jockeys and both Dominguez and Rosario have great and proven agents.

There are very little differences when you are comparing these elite jockeys.

This is just my opinion so don't rip me apart for giving an opinion.

________
David-LV

BTW:

Famous saying from the great Eddie Arcaro for those that remember him when asked the question.

"Does the jockey mean anything in a race?"

Arcaro answer was "I never won a race without a horse."

I posted Eddie Arcaro's Record below for those that are interested:

Career wins 4,779 Major racing wins, honuors and awards Major racing wins

Jockey Club Gold Cup (10)
Wood Memorial Stakes (9)
Suburban Handicap (8)
Kentucky Oaks (4)
Kentucky Derby (5)
Preakness Stakes (6)
Belmont Stakes (6)
Racing awards
United States Triple Crown (1941 & 1948)
United States Champion Jockey by earnings
(1940, 1942, 1948, 1950, 1952, 1958)
George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award (1953)
Big Sport of Turfdom Award (1974)
Honours United States Racing Hall of Fame (1958)
Eddie Arcaro Stakes at Hialeah Park

Significant horses Whirlaway, Citation, Ponder, Hoop Jr., Challedon, Kelso, Nashua, Mark-Ye-Well, Hill Prince, Bold Ruler, Sword Dancer, Real Delight

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by jelly

I think you answered your own question Vic.Why wouldn't a young jock want to get better?



You better be nice to Andy,the way things are going out in California you might need him for a Job referral

I'm always both nice and respectful to Andy. Wish it was reciprocal.

[toetoe]

Come on, Vic.



Gimme a hug !!!

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'm always both nice and respectful to Andy. Wish it was reciprocal.

why should he? he picks more winners than you do, and for that matter, almost everyone else here

[ten2oneormore]

Originally Posted by David-LV

Much better I think not!!

I watch tons of replays daily, and still play both harness and thoroughbreds 3 to 5 day a week and in my 50+ years of handicapping which started at Roosevelt Raceway in the fall of 1957 and having owned both many thoroughbreds & standardbreds throughout my many years.

I personally think in harness racing the Driver is about 20%, the Trip 20%, and the Horse is about 60%.

In thoroughbred racing Jockey about 5%, the Trip 15%, and the Horse 80%.

Either Dominguez or Rosario will get the job done when on the best Horse, that is the 80% that I spoke about above.

The agent is the key ingredient when it comes down to the elite jockeys and both Dominguez and Rosario have great and proven agents.

There are very little differences when you are comparing these elite jockeys.

This is just my opinion so don't rip me apart for giving an opinion.

________
David-LV

Originally Posted by Producer

Does anybody really think any of these guys, including Ramon, is a better rider than Rosario? I sure as hell don't. It's going to take time but I have no doubt Rosario will be the top rider on any circuit he wants, including NY. Rosario and Bajarano are the cream of the crop, not just in Cali, but in the country. And I'm a Florida boy who has followed East Coast racing from the time I was a child. It just is what it is, though.

Don't know why you two feel that you have to add your portfolio in order to appear knowledgeable.Your opinion says enough about that.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by David-LV

Much better I think not!!

I watch tons of replays daily, and still play both harness and thoroughbreds 3 to 5 day a week and in my 50+ years of handicapping which started at Roosevelt Raceway in the fall of 1957 and having owned both many thoroughbreds & standardbreds throughout my many years.

I personally think in harness racing the Driver is about 20%, the Trip 20%, and the Horse is about 60%.

In thoroughbred racing Jockey about 5%, the Trip 15%, and the Horse 80%.

Either Dominguez or Rosario will get the job done when on the best Horse, that is the 80% that I spoke about above.

The agent is the key ingredient when it comes down to the elite jockeys and both Dominguez and Rosario have great and proven agents.

There are very little differences when you are comparing these elite jockeys.

This is just my opinion so don't rip me apart for giving an opinion.

________
David-LV

BTW:

Famous saying from the great Eddie Arcaro for those that remember him when asked the question.

"Does the jockey mean anything in a race?"

Arcaro answer was "I never won a race without a horse."

I posted Eddie Arcaro's Record below for those that are interested:

Career wins 4,779 Major racing wins, honuors and awards Major racing wins

Jockey Club Gold Cup (10)
Wood Memorial Stakes (9)
Suburban Handicap (8)
Kentucky Oaks (4)
Kentucky Derby (5)
Preakness Stakes (6)
Belmont Stakes (6)
Racing awards
United States Triple Crown (1941 & 1948)
United States Champion Jockey by earnings
(1940, 1942, 1948, 1950, 1952, 1958)
George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award (1953)
Big Sport of Turfdom Award (1974)
Honours United States Racing Hall of Fame (1958)
Eddie Arcaro Stakes at Hialeah Park

Significant horses Whirlaway, Citation, Ponder, Hoop Jr., Challedon, Kelso, Nashua, Mark-Ye-Well, Hill Prince, Bold Ruler, Sword Dancer, Real Delight

Your opinion is wrong in this case, but don't worry. Another 50 or so years and you'll figure it out.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

why should he? he picks more winners than you do, and for that matter, almost everyone else here

You should tell more stories about the horses you "own". Nothing brings a thread to a halt like that.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

You should tell more stories about the horses you "own". Nothing brings a thread to a halt like that.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Tom

He was seriously injured in a spill at the end of December,1987. He rode at Toga that August, so he couldn't have been there too long.

Someone said it was in the 70s. I'd like to see the stats? If he was there for two months, who cares...