Is NY ever going to introduce a pick five?

[BPQJaguar]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

the NYRA non-carry pick6 is 15%

what are we talking in terms of the "low"take pick5s ??
Santa Anita is what? 14%
California?
Churchill?
Gulfstream?
You guys are the experts with this wager, what are major tracks offering??

The pick 5 takeout for most tracks is close to the takeout of the non-carryover pick 6 in New York
Hollywood 14%
Gulfstream 15%
Monmouth 15%
I think Churchill was 19% as of last year

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by BPQJaguar

The pick 5 takeout for most tracks is close to the takeout of the non-carryover pick 6 in New York
Hollywood 14%
Gulfstream 15%
Monmouth 15%
I think Churchill was 19% as of last year

So the takeout for this wager isn't really the issue?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by BPQJaguar

The pick 5 takeout for most tracks is close to the takeout of the non-carryover pick 6 in New York
Hollywood 14%
Gulfstream 15%
Monmouth 15%
I think Churchill was 19% as of last year

Yeah, that GP P5 is great. It's 15% if you are the only winner, but it's something like an effective 70% if there are more than one. Great bet.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yeah, that GP P5 is great. It's 15% if you are the only winner, but it's something like an effective 70% if there are more than one. Great bet.

You're thinking about the pick-6

[Producer]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yeah, that GP P5 is great. It's 15% if you are the only winner, but it's something like an effective 70% if there are more than one. Great bet.

Are you talking about the rainbow p6? That's a different bet. A P5 at a 15% takeout and .50 minumum at a track like Gulfstream with full, competitive fields is an attractive bet to most horse players who play horizontals.

[thaskalos]

I think OTM Al has confused the Pick-5 with the High-5.

The Pick-5, with a 50-cent minimum and a 15% takeout, is an excellent bet.

The NY Pick-3 on the other hand, with a 24% takeout, might be the worst bet in all of racing.

[Some_One]

The P6 in the current format is dead, having the $1 P5 with a $.20-$1 Rainbow/Super/whatever-you-want-to-call it P6 is the future.

[Vinman]

If the .50 cent "Players' Pick 5" with a reduced takeout can thrive on the Southern California circuit together with the traditional $2.00 Pick 6, then why can't the same two wagers thrive on the NYRA circuit?

There IS no rational reason why both wagers cannot be on the NYRA wagering menu and thrive together. There are only "certain people" who don't want to see the Pick 5 introduced at NYRA because they regard Pick 6 carryovers as their own personal piggy bank and don't want them "poached" by a 50 cent wager that is easier to hit and makes so much more sense to play than the "antiquated" $2 minimum Pick 6.

Put in the 50 cent Pick 5 on the LAST 5 races and let the betting dollars flow where they may. If you play the Pick 6 on a carryover day (the only time it should be played, IMHO) and blow the first leg, guess what? You already have the 50 cent Pick 5 doped out on the last 5 races. Wow, what a concept!

Vinman

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Producer

Are you talking about the rainbow p6? That's a different bet. A P5 at a 15% takeout and .50 minumum at a track like Gulfstream with full, competitive fields is an attractive bet to most horse players who play horizontals.

Yep, you are right. I think I mixed it up in my mind with the most recent P5s at (I think) Fairgrounds that worked in the same way. It was only a 57.5% effective takeout I think... Just another shiny object though IMO. You guys want this thing so bad then you are welcome to it, but still feel it is a terrible bet, especially for new players, and don't try to make arguments about churn when you are pushing something like this.

[tanner12oz]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I don't even know why people want this thing as it's a pretty lousy bet.

disagree completely

it's hittable..it's a cheap ticket...and it pays huge...

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

disagree completely

it's hittable..it's a cheap ticket...and it pays huge...

So's Lotto.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I think OTM Al has confused the Pick-5 with the High-5.

The Pick-5, with a 50-cent minimum and a 15% takeout, is an excellent bet.

The NY Pick-3 on the other hand, with a 24% takeout, might be the worst bet in all of racing.

Not even close. I take it you don't play Parx?

Win, place, and show: 17%
Daily Double and Exacta wagering: 20%
Pick Three wagering: 26%
Trifecta and Superfecta wagering: 30%

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

So's Lotto.

Do you feel the same way about the Pick Six?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Do you feel the same way about the Pick Six?

For the most part if you don't have a sufficiently large bankroll. I think I've played it once in the last 3 or 4 years and the only reason I did was because it was a triple carry and I could identify 3 singles and make a viable ticket for under $40. I think I got 5 of 6 and got my money back, but that is a pretty rare setup. Day to day I wouldn't touch the thing. Usually won't even touch the P4 either.

Last year I was talking to cj's dad about these bets and he put it out in such a basic and straightforward way that I really don't even think about playing anything more than a P3. He said consider an avarage day when each leg of a pick 3 and 4 had only 8 runners. The Pick 3 gives 512 possible combinations before you even handicap. The Pick 4 multiplies that to 4096. I'd much rather cash small than not at all and my ego does not demand that I chase the white whale known as the Pick Six.

These P5s were instituted at tracks for the most part that tried to have a P6 that failed miserably. To me though they seemed the ultimate in bait and switch. Hastings with it's 0% P3,4 and 5 is the prime example. They probably weren't making much on those bets anyway, so instead they bait you with the low (or no in this case) takeout and minimum knowing that most players aren't disciplined enough to be able to sit there and watch five races without getting some action in other pools. You already handicapped the card you know....so they make up for the low take in their other pools. It would be one thing if the P5 got you your money back on a decent basis, but it won't. You'll likely lose that one too. And that's why I think it's a sucker bet. They make you think you're getting a good deal when you are not. But hey, as I've always said, it's your money and you can spend it as you please.I just think there's smarter ways to do things, but that's just my opinion.

[tanner12oz]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

For the most part if you don't have a sufficiently large bankroll. I think I've played it once in the last 3 or 4 years and the only reason I did was because it was a triple carry and I could identify 3 singles and make a viable ticket for under $40. I think I got 5 of 6 and got my money back, but that is a pretty rare setup. Day to day I wouldn't touch the thing. Usually won't even touch the P4 either.

Last year I was talking to cj's dad about these bets and he put it out in such a basic and straightforward way that I really don't even think about playing anything more than a P3. He said consider an avarage day when each leg of a pick 3 and 4 had only 8 runners. The Pick 3 gives 512 possible combinations before you even handicap. The Pick 4 multiplies that to 4096. I'd much rather cash small than not at all and my ego does not demand that I chase the white whale known as the Pick Six.

These P5s were instituted at tracks for the most part that tried to have a P6 that failed miserably. To me though they seemed the ultimate in bait and switch. Hastings with it's 0% P3,4 and 5 is the prime example. They probably weren't making much on those bets anyway, so instead they bait you with the low (or no in this case) takeout and minimum knowing that most players aren't disciplined enough to be able to sit there and watch five races without getting some action in other pools. You already handicapped the card you know....so they make up for the low take in their other pools. It would be one thing if the P5 got you your money back on a decent basis, but it won't. You'll likely lose that one too. And that's why I think it's a sucker bet. They make you think you're getting a good deal when you are not. But hey, as I've always said, it's your money and you can spend it as you please.I just think there's smarter ways to do things, but that's just my opinion.

just wondering how much do you think you need to spend to create a solid pick 4, pick 5 and pick 6 ticket (2.00 not lame jackpot)?

personally pick 4's are very hittable at $40-$50 (.50) and at the decent tracks return significantly more then your investment. pick 5 is very hittable around $100-$120 (.50) again paying significantly more back and the pick 6 requires some addition bucks but at maybe $300-$450 it's hittable and again provides a great return...

i almost strictly play the longer sequence pick bets and without a doubt am up significantly as a result...the key is playing a good sequence and finding a single...although i agree 100% that discipline is key with these bets and many times i have sat around between races and pissed away any profit i had coming to me....this doesn't have anything to do with the bets though but gamblers discipline