Feinstein Wants Santa Anita Halted

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by highnote

Jason Calacanis, A silicon valley investor, said it takes about $10,000 to hire a Search Engine Optimization specialist to have your website appear at the top of search engine queries. He was critical of Rick Santorum for complaining about the LGBT community creating a vulgar neologism of his last name due to Santorum's views on homosexuality at the time, rather than spend money to get his name more prominently displayed. The santorum neologism appeared at the top of search engines, rather than Santorum's own website.

You can search on santorum if you're curious. I wouldn't recommend it. You've been warned. Even after all these years, the neologism still prominently appears.

The point is that with all the money in the racing industry, it wouldn't take much to get positive racing headlines to appear at the top of search engines and make sure they stay there. These days battles are fought on the internet news and social media platforms and as Bob Lefsetz pointed out, everyone is a troll.

Has NOTHING to do with SEO (well, not on PETA's part anyway). I can pretty much guarantee that...but thanks for playing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by highnote

Young people die from playing rugby, too -- mostly traumatic brain injuries.

Life is dangerous.

This might contradict my previous post (I guess I do not have a strong position either way because I can see both sides of the argument), but if animals were left alone in the wild then animals that are carnivores would still kill other animals. Apes and baboons kill infants. If you study their behavior you understand why. It seems irrational, but it is actually very rational based on their needs. But does that make it right? Or is it even a question of right or wrong?

This link to a series of free lectures from Stanford University's Robert Sapolsky will help you understand human and ape behavior -- many similarities, but also vast differences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA

The point I'm getting to is that animals will die in the wild from predators. Humans can be predators, but can choose not to be. Is it unethical for a human to choose to kill an animal for food? Just because humans have a choice does that mean it is unethical to make a choice to kill an animal for food?

I remember seeing my grandfather kill a hog. He shot it right between the eyes with a .22 rifle and then slit it's throat. It was quite a sight for a 10 year old boy to see -- watching the hog convulse and defecate while its blood streamed down the hillside of the barnyard and then to see its guts fall out when he cut open its belly. He also made sure I got to see the miracle of a sow giving birth. He understood the life cycle. He didn't want to go into a nursing home. So at the end of his life he died like so many of the animals he had slaughtered; but his death was self-inflicted with a shotgun blast to his chest and with a knife spilling his own guts -- hari kari-style.

If an old or feeble hog was attacked by a predator in the wild is that any different than a human killing a hog? It's the same outcome for a hog.

There are a lot of levels from which to examine these issues.

At the end of the day it probably comes down to philosophy, beliefs, and ideology, etc. Is it right for people from Group A to force their beliefs on people from Group B in order to protect beings in Group C? Should have the northern states fought the southern states in order to free slaves? It cost over 600,000 lives. Had the northern states let the south secede it is likely slavery would have ended with many fewer deaths --but slavery would have existed for at least another 20 or 30 years. Slavery ended in Brazil around 1880 without a civil war.

Would it be unethical for PETA to force my grandfather not to kill the hog that will feed his family? Was it unethical for my grandfather to take his own life because he could no longer see and could no longer work his farm and because he didn't want to go into a nursing home?

Horse industry people need to take a stand to protect their livelihood and fight back with a vengeance against PETA. PETA is fighting with a vengeance.

Pardon the pun again, but at this point I have no dog in this fight because I have not made up my mind on this complicated issue. I am interested in the issue from a philosophical point of view.

[airford1]

Originally Posted by highnote

Your argument, please.

Ever see a pack of Coyotes with Feral cats in their mouths and keep coming back to the Cat lady house that keeps feeding the wild cats because it's just a buffet.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by airford1

Ever see a pack of Coyotes with Feral cats in their mouths and keep coming back to the Cat lady house that keeps feeding the wild cats because it's just a buffet.

No, but coyotes in a cat lady house sounds like a Joni Mitchell song.

But seriously, coyotes have to eat, too.

But I get it that you shouldn't feed wild animals. I stopped feeding wild birds the day I saw a rat eating the seeds on the ground.

Coyotes and foxes eat domesticate chickens, too, but that doesn't stop people from raising chickens.

This is like politics. There is no right answer, just beliefs.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by highnote

No, but coyotes in a cat lady house sounds like a Joni Mitchell song.

But seriously, coyotes have to eat, too.

But I get it that you shouldn't feed wild animals. I stopped feeding wild birds the day I saw a rat eating the seeds on the ground.

Coyotes and foxes eat domesticate chickens, too, but that doesn't stop people from raising chickens.

This is like politics. There is no right answer, just beliefs.

The only morality exists between your ears, sir. Conscience is an evolutionary trait selected to perpetuate our species. The savagely chaotic universe is monumentally indifferent to any concept of right or wrong. Both are human inventions.

That is just my opinion.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by mountainman

The only morality exists between your ears, sir. Conscience is an evolutionary trait selected to perpetuate our species. The savagely chaotic universe is monumentally indifferent to any concept of right or wrong. Both are human inventions.

That is just my opinion.

Very good points.

You might like this 25 part series of lectures from Prof. Robert Sapolsky of Stanford University:

#1 The Biology of Human Behavior

YouTube

#2. Behaviorial Evolution part 1:

YouTube

#3 Behaviorial Evolution part 2:

YouTube

Every one I have listened to so far is a 10. He's the best lecturer I have heard.

[AlsoEligible]

Interesting Paulick article yesterday, where the TOC basically admits they have to work with PETA or face extinction:

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/n...-del-mar-meet/

“The organizations we have dealt with on a daily basis, PETA and the Humane Society, have not come out in favor of a ballot initiative to eliminate racing,” [TOC chair Greg] Avioli said. “It's daunting. Animal welfare, animal rights organizations have a much larger membership base in California than does the horse racing industry broadly defined. So our strategy is to work with their leaders. And their leaders, whether it is the Humane Society or PETA, don't always say things that are very nice about us, and they definitely don't always agree with what we do. But we have engaged them at every level, and we are going to continue to do that. Our resources are not the same as their resources.”

Article also states that at the moment, PETA is not pushing for a ballot initiative. Whether that could change in the coming months, who knows. I believe September or October is the legal deadline to get something started in California.

[highnote]

Why not do away with claiming races? Horses would only change hand by private sale. Presumably, the buyer would have the horse checked out before purchasing it. Then also make it a law that the last owner has to find a suitable home for the horse upon retirement.

Horse racing is called the Sport of Kings for a reason. People who can't afford to take care of their horses when their racing careers are over, probably shouldn't own horses.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by AlsoEligible

Interesting Paulick article yesterday, where the TOC basically admits they have to work with PETA or face extinction......Article also states that at the moment, PETA is not pushing for a ballot initiative. Whether that could change in the coming months, who knows. I believe September or October is the legal deadline to get something started in California.

No one ever works with PETA they submit to PETA.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by AndyC

No one ever works with PETA they submit to PETA.

Get a backbone. Take a stand and tell PETA to go to hell. Treat them like terrorists.

[Suff]

Originally Posted by mountainman

The savagely chaotic universe is monumentally indifferent to any concept of right or wrong..

Thank you Sir.

[Tom]

Coyotes and foxes eat domesticate chickens, too, but that doesn't stop people from raising chickens.

How many feral chickens do you see roaming around?
People do sterilize feral cats you know. Habitat for Cats for one.
People sterilized to prevent more cats being born. Each cat born either runs wild or is taken to be destroyed. You think that is better?

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Tom

How many feral chickens do you see roaming around?

Depends on where you look.

Originally Posted by Tom

People sterilized to prevent more cats being born. Each cat born either runs wild or is taken to be destroyed. You think that is better?

Monkeys run wild in India. I don't see people trying to castrate them. Nature has a way of balancing things out. What's wrong with cats running wild?

People don't sterilize bobcats or mountain lions or hyenas or rats or wolves or coyotes or bears or ducks or...

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by highnote

Monkeys run wild in India.

That's one reason I don't live in India. One of many.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

That's one reason I don't live in India. One of many.

Monkeys are cool -- unless they bite you. An organ grinder's money bit my aunt on her face. Her face got infected and she had to get a shot of anti-biotics. Talk about a weird event!