School shooting in Parkland Florida

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Article completely fails to mention that the M4 fires about twice the rate as the AR-15...so yeah, he's "OUTGUNNED"

Oh wait, they did mention it: "The last big difference between the two is that the M4 has either a three round burst or fully automatic firing option."

Yeah, that's a BIG difference...

I'm sorry...I was wrong...the M4 fires close to TWENTY TIMES the rate of an AR-15.

He's WAY OUTGUNNED...by a factor of 20.

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

H4C says military variety. I say no and explain why. FD says there wouldn't be a difference between the two. I call BS based on their own logic. He posts incorrect article describing how they are the same. They aren't and show the way they function is hardly unique.

This is a big baloney sandwich. I never said there “wouldn’t be a difference between the two”, and the article accurately points out both similarities and differences.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

This is a big baloney sandwich. I never said there “wouldn’t be a difference between the two”, and the article accurately points out both similarities and differences.

But the whole argument is the rate of fire with the AR and the fact it's a "military assault rifle."

They aren't the same. The rate of fire is very different. The internals are different. A base Ford Mustang V6 and a Shelby GT look the same but their internals sure as hell aren't.

You can't have it both ways.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

This is a big baloney sandwich. I never said there “wouldn’t be a difference between the two”, and the article accurately points out both similarities and differences.

The AR-15 fires about 45 rounds a minute.

The M4 full automatic (M4A1) fires 700-900 rounds per minute.

This is all on google for anyone who cares (apparently, the anti-gun folks don't)

You tell me how similar they are.

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

The AR-15 fires about 45 rounds a minute.

The M4 full automatic (M4A1) fires 700-900 rounds per minute.

This is all on google for anyone who cares (apparently, the anti-gun folks don't)

You tell me how similar they are.

Google “full auto AR-15” and enjoy the show.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

This is a big baloney sandwich. I never said there “wouldn’t be a difference between the two”, and the article accurately points out both similarities and differences.

I linked a gun earlier. For fairness sake the AR is to the M4 as that gun is to this one...

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

Google “full auto AR-15” and enjoy the show.

Google where you can buy one and enjoy the hunt...

They run about $15,000 and thats before the ATF and Uncle Sam get their hands on you.

Why the disparity if they are so much alike to their select fire military counterparts?

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Google where you can buy one and enjoy the hunt...

They run about $17,000 and thats before the ATF and Uncle Sam get their hands on you.

Why the disparity if they are so much alike to their select fire military counterparts?

This pops right up during the aforementioned google search. Just one conversion method among many it seems, although this one stipulates it’s only “nearly full auto”.

Only $500.

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gu...rly-full-auto/

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

This pops right up during the aforementioned google search. Just one conversion method among many it seems, although this one stipulates it’s only “nearly full auto”.

Only $500.

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gu...rly-full-auto/

Its a semi-auto trigger the ATF even certified it as that. AKA a really light trigger I'll guess 3lbs with a super narrow hammer sear. I already covered this. Not military which uses an 8lb pull.

BTW average trigger cost for an AR is $60. That's $500 for just the trigger. A bump stock or just getting really fat would work better... like this guy... its also faster.

https://youtu.be/3gUnuyoVvFI

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

The AR-15 fires about 45 rounds a minute.

The M4 full automatic (M4A1) fires 700-900 rounds per minute.

This is all on google for anyone who cares (apparently, the anti-gun folks don't)

You tell me how similar they are.

I would be curious if you had an endless supply of loaded 30 round magazines and spare barrels what the amount of rounds fired would be in 5 minutes, and then at 10 minutes. An educated guess would think with the much slower rate of only firing when the trigger is squeezed the Ar-15 could last quite awhile before it over heated where the M-4 would get real hot pretty quick if you were changing magazines quickly while running full auto.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I would be curious if you had an endless supply of loaded 30 round magazines and spare barrels what the amount of rounds fired would be in 5 minutes, and then at 10 minutes. An educated guess would think with the much slower rate of only firing when the trigger is squeezed the Ar-15 could last quite awhile before it over heated where the M-4 would get real hot pretty quick if you were changing magazines quickly while running full auto.

I would tend to think that also, but I'm no gun expert.

Pretty sure the 700-900 RPM is more theoretical than practical? Or maybe not...

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I would be curious if you had an endless supply of loaded 30 round magazines and spare barrels what the amount of rounds fired would be in 5 minutes, and then at 10 minutes. An educated guess would think with the much slower rate of only firing when the trigger is squeezed the Ar-15 could last quite awhile before it over heated where the M-4 would get real hot pretty quick if you were changing magazines quickly while running full auto.

Correct.

Without changing barrels the gun would blow probably somewhere between 300-1000 rounds. Changing out the upper on the AR does take a second though so it would slow you down. Problem is you wouldn't be able to handle the upper you are taking off. The AR would, at least in theory, survive a little longer.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I would be curious if you had an endless supply of loaded 30 round magazines and spare barrels what the amount of rounds fired would be in 5 minutes, and then at 10 minutes. An educated guess would think with the much slower rate of only firing when the trigger is squeezed the Ar-15 could last quite awhile before it over heated where the M-4 would get real hot pretty quick if you were changing magazines quickly while running full auto.

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I would tend to think that also, but I'm no gun expert.

Pretty sure the 700-900 RPM is more theoretical than practical? Or maybe not...

I would think you could probably keep the 45 round a minute pace up with the Ar-15 for quite a while, where as even if you could get one minute of 700 rounds out of the M-4, it would probably start having trouble soon after. Metal expands and softens when it gets hot. I saw a guy firing a full auto AR-15 on a you tube video I don't think he got past more than a couple hundred rounds before the gun started falling apart, maybe the M-4 is of better design and more durable.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I would think you could probably keep the 45 round a minute pace up with the Ar-15 for quite a while, where as even if you could get one minute of 700 rounds out of the M-4, it would probably start having trouble soon after. Metal expands and softens when it gets hot. I saw a guy firing a full auto AR-15 on a you tube video I don't think he got past more than a couple hundred rounds before the gun started falling apart, maybe the M-4 is of better design and more durable.

Just depends on the quality of parts. There is a Carbon AR on the market for around $550 or at least there used to be. That gun would not last nearly as long as an AR or M4 with high quality metals making up most of its internals.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Oh, there is plenty to fear.
Much that needs to be confronted.

You are correct.
And the right will confront it with GUNS!