Big Bang may not have happened.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by zico20

Then in the early 1950's the Catholic church proclaimed that "yes, that is how God started it all, through the Big Bang."

Can't wait to here the response of the church to evidence that the big bang didn't happen.

[Marshall Bennett]

Its a fact that the universe is expanding, and quite rapidly. Einstein didn't have the facts we now have when he theorized a steady state, although he later dismissed it. An expanding universe with old features of it on its far edge, and newer growth within, is a big proponent for the big bang.
There's really little else to explain its nature.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Actor

This just in. The big bang may not have happened. Apparently the quantity of certain elements observed does not match what the big bang theory predicts. If so then the universe may be in a steady state, as Einstein originally predicted, and the universe may be infinitely old.

I just love the way you people make statements and never show what you base them on.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I just love the way you people make statements and never show what you base them on.

https://www.courthousenews.com/did-b...verses-origin/

I love when you people are too lazy to look something up. Google is your friend.



My guess, your only one.

[Inner Dirt]

I think a lot of people need to buy a dictionary, a lot of them take scientific theory as fact. A theory is an educated guess, nothing more,nothing less.
I find it baffling how Stephen Hawking was worshiped as an amazing genius,
the guy never proven a damn thing, he was just the king of fun with numbers. He did not invent a damn thing.



A person who believes a lot of these scientific theories, especially the impending doom from climate change needs to read the writings of the so called experts on the subjects. Nothing but a bunch of projections based on modeling, with no two scientists agreeing on the extent of what will happen.
Their published papers are filled with words like possibly, could, if, maybe, the list of words that show lack of confidence, in their conclusions. How many scientific predictions end up wrong, down the road?



The answer of what happened in the universe before recorded history, is
nobody knows, believe what you like I say, it is all theory that cannot be proven.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Tom

https://www.courthousenews.com/did-b...verses-origin/

I love when you people are too lazy to look something up. Google is your friend.



My guess, your only one.

As a matter of fact, I did look it up. I didn’t find the article you did, but I did find Dr. Lerner’s name and I found several criticisms of his work including this one,

https://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/lerner_errors.html
Which is also linked in the article you provided above. The reason I asked Actor for a link was in case he had information newer than what you found. You do realize that Lerner’s theories have been around since 1991.

[Clocker]

If you knew for certain that the big bang did or didn't happen, what difference would it make in your life?

[porchy44]

Premise 1: Everything material that begins to exist has a cause. *

(*For if things did not come into being that way, then our world would be a wild spree of things popping into existence like magic.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Premise 2: The universe began to exist. **

(** Today the scientific consensus is that the universe did have a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: The universe has a cause. ***

*** It must be immaterial (beyond matter and space.)

[Actor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Premise 1: Everything material that begins to exist has a cause. *

(*For if things did not come into being that way, then our world would be a wild spree of things popping into existence like magic.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Premise 2: The universe began to exist. **

(** Today the scientific consensus is that the universe did have a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: The universe has a cause. ***

*** It must be immaterial (beyond matter and space.)

1. What about causal loops, specifically Newton's Third Law of motion: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
2. If the universe has a cause then that cause could be a natural phenomenon, rather than an intelligent entity with desires an goals.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

The universe has a cause. ***

*** It must be immaterial (beyond matter and space.)

Why?

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by Actor

Why?

Everything material has a cause.

Because you cannot borrow a dollar from an unlimited number of broke guys.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost

As a matter of fact, I did look it up. I didn’t find the article you did, but I did find Dr. Lerner’s name and I found several criticisms of his work including this one,

https://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/lerner_errors.html
Which is also linked in the article you provided above. The reason I asked Actor for a link was in case he had information newer than what you found. You do realize that Lerner’s theories have been around since 1991.

I don't give a flying **** how long, nor even care about the BBT. All I need know about it s it's on at 7pm every night. I didn't even read the article I linked.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Everything material has a cause.

That does not answer my question. Why must that cause be "beyond matter and space?" What does "beyond matter and space" even mean? Does it mean supernatural? Then you need to prove that the supernatural exists and the burden of proof is yours.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by zico20

When Lemaitre first introduced the Big Bang concept in 1927 atheists were weeping with joy and dancing in the streets because they had their "proof" that God didn't create the Universe like the Bible said.

Pope Pius XI wanted to make the Big Bang part of church doctrine. Lemaitre advised against it, telling the Pope that the science could change.

Originally Posted by zico20

Then in the early 1950's the Catholic church proclaimed that "yes, that is how God started it all, through the Big Bang."

Pope Pius XII (successor to Pius XI) declared that religion and evolution could co-exist. I don't think he mentioned the Big Bang.

Originally Posted by zico20

So what happens? The atheists from that moment on started to panic and decided the Big Bang was not compatible with how it all got started and have since tried in vain to disprove it.

Cite a source for that. I don't think atheists panicked about anything.

Originally Posted by zico20

One last thing since you brought up Einstein, he said this about the Big Bang.

"This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened."

In order to support a static universe Einstein had to add another term to his equations in the General Theory of Relativity. Lemaitre's theory supports the idea that this extra term is zero. I personally think it may be greater than zero, albeit very small.

Originally Posted by zico20

He was a believer, ...

No, he was not. Look it up.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Can't wait to here the response of the church to evidence that the big bang didn't happen.

The Catholic Church did not claim this, but of course is quite open to it, its own Fr. Lemaitre having proposed it. Most recently two churchmen are proposing new theories about gravity immediately after the proposed Big Bang...https://wdcnews6.com/vatican-astroph...-the-big-bang/

Thomas Aquinas allowed for the possibility of an eternal universe, though it would need a sustaining cause, even now.

And yet as a Catholic, I'm free to accept a literal creation account from Genesis.