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View Poll Results: Would you support a Go Fund Me Campaign to fight the Keeneland Takeout Hike?
Yes, Absolutely I would contribute my $$$$$$$ 9 13.85%
No 56 86.15%
Voters: 65. Non-members may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2017, 10:06 AM   #1
Andy Asaro
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Would you support Go Fund Me Campaign with your $$$ to fight the Keeneland Take Hike?

I definitely would. $200


And I'm talking about local ads around Keeneland.

Price Gouging the public

Corporate greed

Keeneland going to pay you less when you win. Tell Keeneland you don't like being ripped off.

This would have to be HANA run. I think we could get at least 25K, probably 50K to pay for the ads.

We need ideas for ads.

Last edited by Andy Asaro; 08-11-2017 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:20 AM   #2
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I'm looking for 25% or more to support it for it to work. Sure Keeneland will have it's minions driving down the poll.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:07 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
...

We need ideas for ads.
**** Keeneland Too
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:20 PM   #4
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Andy, I'm with you most of the time. But this is ridiculous.

It won't accomplish a damn thing.

Next time Best Buy raises prices I'll do a GoFundme for that too.

They made a business decision. Horse players can't seem to walk away no matter how bad they are treated. Until that changes, keep your umbrella handy, they are going to keep pissing on you
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
Andy, I'm with you most of the time. But this is ridiculous.

It won't accomplish a damn thing.

Next time Best Buy raises prices I'll do a GoFundme for that too.

They made a business decision. Horse players can't seem to walk away no matter how bad they are treated. Until that changes, keep your umbrella handy, they are going to keep pissing on you
People say this a lot, but horseplayers are walking away and have been for a while now. You basically have done it yourself I believe. I know I don't bet near what I used to bet. It isn't because I don't want to do so. It is because the pickings are slim when it comes to wagers I think offer value.

I personally don't bet for entertainment. I bet to win money, even if that doesn't always happen. The $2 bettors and the "big day" crowd types can have their days, but that won't carry the sport, not as it is constructed now.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:10 PM   #6
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People say this a lot, but horseplayers are walking away and have been for a while now. You basically have done it yourself I believe. I know I don't bet near what I used to bet. It isn't because I don't want to do so. It is because the pickings are slim when it comes to wagers I think offer value.

I personally don't bet for entertainment. I bet to win money, even if that doesn't always happen. The $2 bettors and the "big day" crowd types can have their days, but that won't carry the sport, not as it is constructed now.
Horseplayers are walking away, Cj...but not because of the takeouts. Many of those who bet for "entertainment" get to a point where their losses make it impossible for them to be "entertained" any longer...so, they walk away. And, many of those who bet to "win money" eventually find themselves with no betting money left...so the choice is either to walk away, or to financially destroy themselves.

No one walks away because of a takeout increase...and the track knows it. In this regard...the track knows us better than we know ourselves.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:15 PM   #7
Andy Asaro
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Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
Andy, I'm with you most of the time. But this is ridiculous.

It won't accomplish a damn thing.

Next time Best Buy raises prices I'll do a GoFundme for that too.

They made a business decision. Horse players can't seem to walk away no matter how bad they are treated. Until that changes, keep your umbrella handy, they are going to keep pissing on you
It's a poll to see how much support it would have. The takeout will be going up in Ca on WPS if there is not pushback.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:56 PM   #8
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...

No one walks away because of a takeout increase...and the track knows it. In this regard...the track knows us better than we know ourselves.
I would agree in general, but there is something to be said for the bleeding (no pun to be intended) of customers due to death by a trillion paper cuts. In that sense, I'm kind of honest with myself. It isn't any one thing that pushes you out, but it's all the little things that gradually land you in a spot where you'd rather watch re-runs of Live PD than watch replays of races and hunt for action. I'm hardly a huge Keeneland customer anyway these days, but something like this certainly makes it a whole lot easier to watch more Live PD in lieu of Keeneland.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Horseplayers are walking away, Cj...but not because of the takeouts. Many of those who bet for "entertainment" get to a point where their losses make it impossible for them to be "entertained" any longer...so, they walk away. And, many of those who bet to "win money" eventually find themselves with no betting money left...so the choice is either to walk away, or to financially destroy themselves.

No one walks away because of a takeout increase...and the track knows it. In this regard...the track knows us better than we know ourselves.
Yeah, but the takeout increases have something to do with all the above, along with promoting all these pie in the sky super exotic bets.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:21 PM   #10
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Hmmmmm....,

So I should pay money to lose money?
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:26 PM   #11
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I would agree in general, but there is something to be said for the bleeding (no pun to be intended) of customers due to death by a trillion paper cuts. In that sense, I'm kind of honest with myself. It isn't any one thing that pushes you out, but it's all the little things that gradually land you in a spot where you'd rather watch re-runs of Live PD than watch replays of races and hunt for action. I'm hardly a huge Keeneland customer anyway these days, but something like this certainly makes it a whole lot easier to watch more Live PD in lieu of Keeneland.
Here's what I think, in a nutshell:

The effect of the takeout can only be properly determined when we take the totality of the racing product into consideration. If the fields are full and competitive, then the profit-minded player can still find worthwhile bets...even if the win-takeout is at 17.5%. But if a track offers an overabundance of uncompetitive 6-horse fields...then the lucrative bets dry up, even if the takeout stands at 14%. These takeout rates don't operate in a vacuum...their effect is dependent on other things.

If a bettor likes the races at Keeneland for the size of the fields and the overall "value" that he finds there...but hates the races in NY because of the plethora of short fields that are offered there...then the takeout difference between the two tracks isn't likely to make him change his mind about these two racetracks.

IMO...Keeneland can get away with charging these higher takeouts...because it's an abbreviated, "marquee" meet, with competitive racing. But this will be interpreted as "horseplayer stupidity" by the other tracks...and we'll soon see these increased takeouts even at the places where the 6-horse fields dominate. It's the PRECEDENT that I rail against...not the Keeneland takeout hike in particular. As a serious bettor...I can easily avoid a particular track that I deem "overly-greedy". But I am left with no track to play when that "greed" spreads everywhere else.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:41 PM   #12
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Current Twitter Poll

36% Yes

64% No

64 votes in.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
Current Twitter Poll

36% Yes

64% No

64 votes in.
Surprised?
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Here's what I think, in a nutshell:

The effect of the takeout can only be properly determined when we take the totality of the racing product into consideration. If the fields are full and competitive, then the profit-minded player can still find worthwhile bets...even if the win-takeout is at 17.5%. But if a track offers an overabundance of uncompetitive 6-horse fields...then the lucrative bets dry up, even if the takeout stands at 14%. These takeout rates don't operate in a vacuum...their effect is dependent on other things.

If a bettor likes the races at Keeneland for the size of the fields and the overall "value" that he finds there...but hates the races in NY because of the plethora of short fields that are offered there...then the takeout difference between the two tracks isn't likely to make him change his mind about these two racetracks.

IMO...Keeneland can get away with charging these higher takeouts...because it's an abbreviated, "marquee" meet, with competitive racing. But this will be interpreted as "horseplayer stupidity" by the other tracks...and we'll soon see these increased takeouts even at the places where the 6-horse fields dominate. It's the PRECEDENT that I rail against...not the Keeneland takeout hike in particular. As a serious bettor...I can easily avoid a particular track that I deem "overly-greedy". But I am left with no track to play when that "greed" spreads everywhere else.
This is part of the problem Canterbury had last year. Lowered takeout but 6 horse fields of bad horses is not enticing.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:59 PM   #15
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Surprised?
No, I figured between 25% and 40% would be good.
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