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Old 09-03-2018, 05:38 PM   #16
HalvOnHorseracing
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I think the most useful skill a jockey can have is the "clock in his head." When the trainer says, run a :49 half, I want someone who can do it.
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Old 09-03-2018, 05:51 PM   #17
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I'm going to redboard, something I hope I rarely do...I bet the winner of the Baruch because I had a feeling this exact situation was going to play out. Voodoo Song was so much lone speed I knew the rider would throttle him back and keep the others in shouting distance, and they were 100% to outfinish him in that scenario. I bet the winner and hit the exact playing a key box with him and three others, not including the heavy chalk.
Nice!
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Old 09-03-2018, 05:58 PM   #18
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Letting that speed out on the turf is tough, I feel better about it in socal than NY...either way dont take away what a horse does best and for Vodoo Song that is running others into the ground with real fractions.
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Old 09-03-2018, 06:25 PM   #19
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When I hustled I was surprised how rarely actual nuts and bolts handicapping came into play.

There were a few times I'd have to make choice based soley on who I thought would win. But not that often.
Correct..That surprised me at first.

Sometimes on upcoming stakes I'd chime in who I thought would win and they would look at me like I was nuts. They usually picked the right ones.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:47 PM   #20
AltonKelsey
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Good call betting against Voodoo, but I don't think the ride had anything to do with it.



He didn't bring his A game today. Early part of the race was perfect, 4L lead soft fractions, when asked for more at the 1/2 , didn't really respond, so they got to him.



No ride wins today.
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:28 PM   #21
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His last race was very intense, probably took something out of him.

Z
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:38 PM   #22
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Good call betting against Voodoo, but I don't think the ride had anything to do with it.



He didn't bring his A game today. Early part of the race was perfect, 4L lead soft fractions, when asked for more at the 1/2 , didn't really respond, so they got to him.



No ride wins today.
Probably right, but I don't second guess myself when I win. Game is tough enough as it is.

To the broader point, true speed horses like him run best when they go fast early on turf. I hate that ride whether it mattered today or not.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:51 AM   #23
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I get it, but this horse is generally not a run off, can you imagine the stink if he opened up 10 L and folded , which is what he would have had to do to run 'fast'


Wasn't gonna happen , and yes, better to not second guess the win
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:43 AM   #24
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I get it, but this horse is generally not a run off, can you imagine the stink if he opened up 10 L and folded , which is what he would have had to do to run 'fast'
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:06 AM   #25
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Back to the original point of the thread, every experience I've had with Eric Cancel has been positive. He looks at the PPs and comes to the paddock prepared. He gives 100% whether he's trying to get a horse home for the win or trying to get 4th instead of 5th. He follows instructions. He's willing to go into tight holes and difficult positions to gain an advantage. He doesn't win a lot of races yet, but imo if he's given a chance by the top owners and trainers and gets better horses to ride, I think he's going to be very successful eventually.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #26
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I'm going to redboard, something I hope I rarely do...I bet the winner of the Baruch because I had a feeling this exact situation was going to play out. Voodoo Song was so much lone speed I knew the rider would throttle him back and keep the others in shouting distance, and they were 100% to outfinish him in that scenario. I bet the winner and hit the exact playing a key box with him and three others, not including the heavy chalk.
That's just the situation in human track. Those with speed want a slower pace keeping them in contact with the front runners who they can outkick late. The front runners want a fast pace to take the sting out of the closesrs. This is the opposite of most dirt horse races where the front runners have a tendency to burn themselves out early and do better when they can slow the early pace.

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Old 09-04-2018, 09:35 AM   #27
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There's a tricky balance between going fast enough enough to burn out your competitors and going so fast you burn yourself out too. You want to go fast but stay in your comfort zone and hope that your competitors try to stay with you and take themselves out of their own comfort zone doing it.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:50 PM   #28
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Back to the original point of the thread, every experience I've had with Eric Cancel has been positive. He looks at the PPs and comes to the paddock prepared. He gives 100% whether he's trying to get a horse home for the win or trying to get 4th instead of 5th. He follows instructions. He's willing to go into tight holes and difficult positions to gain an advantage. He doesn't win a lot of races yet, but imo if he's given a chance by the top owners and trainers and gets better horses to ride, I think he's going to be very successful eventually.
There is the issue- 'He follows instructions'. Many times jocks take the heat for questionable rides when they ARE simply following instructions. This business has changed over the past 20 years, no days owners want to be trainers and trainers want to be jocks. Trainers are often constrained on where to place horses and jocks are often constrained with riding instructions

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Old 09-05-2018, 07:33 AM   #29
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His last race was very intense, probably took something out of him.

Z
I expected Voodoo to bounce, but I had the two horse, who looked set for a perfect trip, got a perfect trip and took the lead, but was out-kicked.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:10 PM   #30
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There is the issue- 'He follows instructions'. Many times jocks take the heat for questionable rides when they ARE simply following instructions. This business has changed over the past 20 years, no days owners want to be trainers and trainers want to be jocks. Trainers are often constrained on where to place horses and jocks are often constrained with riding instructions
The ideal situation probably depends on the rider and the trainer.

If the rider comes to the paddock and the first things he says is, "It looks like there's a lot of speed in this race" or "The inside paths seem a little deeper today", the trainer probably doesn't have to tell him much.

If the rider doesn't bother reading the PPs or watching the races, maybe he needs to be prepared a little better.

If this is one of the first times he's ridden the horse maybe he can just tell him things like "He hates to be inside horses" or "we are trying to teach him to relax off horses" etc..

If the trainer isn't prepared, then maybe he shouldn't say much.
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