Claiming protocol at small tracks

[FantasticDan]

I was at Finger Lakes yesterday and near the winner circle as the horses returned after a race..

A woman was unsaddling her horse on the track, and she spotted another owner/trainer standing trackside near the circle, and she calls out, "Hey (I didn't hear the name), some idiot took your horse!" When she said the latter, that's what grabbed my attention.

The guy looked at her dumbfounded, started walking toward her and said, "Huh? What?"

"Some idiot claimed your horse!"

He then said, "Who?", and she said she didn't know.

Anyway, it just got me wondering about "protocol" in situations like this. Obviously at a small track like FL, the majority of races are bottom claimers, and the majority of horses no other trainer would want anyway.

But I assume that since most everyone makes their living off these claimers, the "understanding" is that you don't touch another man's horse? Obviously with the surprise and disdain I was seeing, this must be the case..

The race in question was for $6250 claimers. Not great horses obviously, but some do have talent and ability and could potentially compete in better conditions..

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

I was at Finger Lakes yesterday and near the winner circle as the horses returned after a race..

A woman was unsaddling her horse on the track, and she spotted another owner/trainer standing trackside near the circle, and she calls out, "Hey (I didn't hear the name), some idiot took your horse!" When she said the latter, that's what grabbed my attention.

The guy looked at her dumbfounded, started walking toward her and said, "Huh? What?"

"Some idiot claimed your horse!"

He then said, "Who?", and she said she didn't know.

Anyway, it just got me wondering about "protocol" in situations like this. Obviously at a small track like FL, the majority of races are bottom claimers, and the majority of horses no other trainer would want anyway.

But I assume that since most everyone makes their living off these claimers, the "understanding" is that you don't touch another man's horse? Obviously with the surprise and disdain I was seeing, this must be the case..

The race in question was for $6250 claimers. Not great horses obviously, but some do have talent and ability and could potentially compete in better conditions..

I never understood the idea of not claiming for any reason. Claiming is a main aspect of the game. Even if it is the owners only horse. The new owner is giving the old owner enough money to buy another horse.

You don't see a lot of claims at B or C tracks because most of the horses lack talent to break even for a new owner or have visible problems that turn off potential buyers.

The thing about protocol at any track is calling anyone who claims a horse an idiot. That person could have heard it or heard about it. It isn't good, especially if they are new to the game.

[Hanover1]

Not sure about nowadays, but used to be if a guy had a small shed, say 10-12 horses, and they were cheap, he was pretty much left alone in the claiming box, but that also included the clause that the guy was a stand-up sort who played well with others. A fella that might have rubbed people wrong was not so lucky. However the large sheds of, say, 20+ horses, put themselves in the claiming game by default. Many of these sheds operated on the claim earn and drop premise that sustains them.
On that note, if you saw a high profile trainer put one in the box, he was usually fair game.

[therussmeister]

I've never heard of this, I don't recall playing any thoroughbred tracks where there are no claims. According to DRF charts there were five claims in the last four days of racing at Finger Lakes.

I would have assumed the person was called an idiot because it was a bad claim, not that it was against some unwritten rule. What did the form of the claimed horse look like?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by Hanover1

Not sure about nowadays, but used to be if a guy had a small shed, say 10-12 horses, and they were cheap, he was pretty much left alone in the claiming box, but that also included the clause that the guy was a stand-up sort who played well with others. A fella that might have rubbed people wrong was not so lucky. However the large sheds of, say, 20+ horses, put themselves in the claiming game by default. Many of these sheds operated on the claim earn and drop premise that sustains them.
On that note, if you saw a high profile trainer put one in the box, he was usually fair game.

All sheds and all claiming races are fair game.If a guy has a horse that I want and he is in for a price I will claim him..It is fun to go shopping.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

All sheds and all claiming races are fair game.If a guy has a horse that I want and he is in for a price I will claim him..It is fun to go shopping.

Every track I was intergrated at operated the same way-they are all fair game. However the little guy that does not want to lose his horse raced accordingly, and was often under the radar. We all knew who these guys were. Bigger sheds were usually a better target, as watchfull eyes can miss much more under the assembly line training methods employed by many. Many owners get impatient with a horse, and they get dropped for a win, then its pounce time....

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

All sheds and all claiming races are fair game.If a guy has a horse that I want and he is in for a price I will claim him..It is fun to go shopping.

Would you claim a horse in the same barn as you?

Would you claim from a friend?

Those two unwritten rules still seem to apply for most people.

It used to be you left the little guys alone (at least the ones that weren't scumbags or weren't always dropping horses in class), but that seems to have gone by the wayside.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by Brogan

Would you claim a horse in the same barn as you?

Would you claim from a friend?

Those two unwritten rules still seem to apply for most It used to be you left the little guys alone (at least the ones that weren't scumbags or weren't always dropping horses in class), but that seems to have gone by the wayside.

No I never would claim a horse out of the same shed...If a friend had a horse that my owner wanted,I would go and talk to him about it,My owner would also know the facts before said horse was to be claimed...I am not a scumbag like that.In this day and age,If you dont claim a horse a owner wants,That owner will go to another trainer.I am a gentleman when it comes to claiming..If I have a horse to claim that I like,I will go to the trainer and let him know that his horse may be claimed.This has worked out well for me as I have had a lot of guys thanking me and knowing their horse was going to a good home.If they are in for a price they are for sale no matter who owns them.Business is business and friendship is friendship

[Stillriledup]

If you appear to be honest, some cheater will dip in for your horse. Its inevitable.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

All sheds and all claiming races are fair game.If a guy has a horse that I want and he is in for a price I will claim him..It is fun to go shopping.

So if a stand up guy has 3 horses in his barn you would still claim one off him? you would be eliminating 33% of the guys revenue.

I've also heard the unwritten rule that you leave the standup guys alone that have small sheds cause you don't want to take food off their table.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Scav

So if a stand up guy has 3 horses in his barn you would still claim one off him? you would be eliminating 33% of the guys revenue.

I've also heard the unwritten rule that you leave the standup guys alone that have small sheds cause you don't want to take food off their table.

In So Cal, Nobody really claims off Jack Van Berg even though he's 0 for 100 on the year. He's got REALLY bad horses, but some of his runners would be good enough to win if they had a fresh shot of juice. I'm assuming that JVB is pretty much 'off limits' for the claiming barns. But, i guess there's always a first time for everything.

[Some_One]

Originally Posted by Scav

So if a stand up guy has 3 horses in his barn you would still claim one off him? you would be eliminating 33% of the guys revenue.

I've also heard the unwritten rule that you leave the standup guys alone that have small sheds cause you don't want to take food off their table.

Just another example of the sense of entitlement that horsemen in the industry have.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by Scav

So if a stand up guy has 3 horses in his barn you would still claim one off him? you would be eliminating 33% of the guys revenue.

I've also heard the unwritten rule that you leave the standup guys alone that have small sheds cause you don't want to take food off their table.

Im a standup guy...Geeze I have a small stable and 2 winters ago at Gulfstream they were claiming everything I ran..When your in the claiming business you have to keep replenshing your stock.If that guy I claimed off had 3 horses,He now has 2 and FRESH money for a new investment.Dont give me that taking food out of his mouth because you have given him money to buy more.Also remember in this claiming game.You get more people snickering at you then the ones who will wish you luck.Most former trainers and owners would hate seeing someone do better then they did with their claim.

[Stillriledup]

In the olden days, i think this was pre 1900, they used to let trainers claim horses AFTER the race. This would prevent a trainer from running a 40k horse in a 20k race to 'steal' a purse. If you ran a horse who was obviously far superior to the pricetag, you would definitely lose the horse after the race. I think they actually 'auctioned' the horse off to the highest bidder...so, the owner gets 'market value' on his horse. I do believe that i read somewhere that the winner HAS to be auctioned off after the race.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Im a standup guy...Geeze I have a small stable and 2 winters ago at Gulfstream they were claiming everything I ran..When your in the claiming business you have to keep replenshing your stock.If that guy I claimed off had 3 horses,He now has 2 and FRESH money for a new investment.Dont give me that taking food out of his mouth because you have given him money to buy more.Also remember in this claiming game.You get more people snickering at you then the ones who will wish you luck.Most former trainers and owners would hate seeing someone do better then they did with their claim.

The current claiming game, the way its set up, hurts horse racing i believe. I think that there's too much of a churn of horses, some owners get in the game, get a few horses and actually want to KEEP those horses and run them in races without risking losing them. This is what might have driven some owners from the game to never return. If you have an honest trainer and a cheater claims your horse and turns him into a stakes horse, i think its quite possible you close up your checkbook to never return.

There are probably owners who are willing to get back into the game, but not the way the rules are currently written.

Some owners just want to run the horse they own. Its like this. Lets say you buy a new car at the dealership and you own that car for a few years. you know everything about the history of that car. Well, now, the auto industry is forcing you to just give your car back and take another one of 'equal value'. This would be a hypothetical example of what happens in the claiming game. Owners know the history of THEIR horse, they don't want to trade that horse in and get someone else's horse that they know nothing about that horse's history.