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03-10-2020, 08:54 AM
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#166
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Maximum Security moved to Baffert.
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03-10-2020, 09:02 AM
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#167
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Maximum Security moved to Baffert.
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Not surprising since the owner already has other horses with Baffert...
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03-10-2020, 09:10 AM
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#168
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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I don't trust Baffert, I think his results are too good to be true, plus he has had enough things happen in his career that raise suspicion. If Maximum Security races again, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't, he'll have to race clean and it's hard to imagine that he'll run anywhere near as well as he has.
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03-10-2020, 09:52 AM
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#169
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acorn54
riddle me this onefast. if what you say is true, how is that hong kong racing can be so above board?
or did elvis leave that building too
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Simple, they have the most advanced testing and penalties in the world. Hong Kong also has the smallest horse population in the world and it is easier to manage under one jurisdiction that prides itself on integrity. They are also the most transparent track as well. Owners pay a fee in advance for the retirement of the horse(s) they own.
It would be an impossibility for US tracks to match this system.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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03-10-2020, 10:01 AM
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#170
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefast99
Simple, they have the most advanced testing and penalties in the world. Hong Kong also has the smallest horse population in the world and it is easier to manage under one jurisdiction that prides itself on integrity. They are also the most transparent track as well. Owners pay a fee in advance for the retirement of the horse(s) they own.
It would be an impossibility for US tracks to match this system.
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Yes, it's very easy to do everything "the right way" when everything is under one management team and one security team and one vet team etc. etc. etc.
I love when people try and point to Hong Kong as the model and think why can't that work over here? It should be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy, right?
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03-10-2020, 10:03 AM
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#171
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
I don't trust Baffert, I think his results are too good to be true, plus he has had enough things happen in his career that raise suspicion. If Maximum Security races again, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't, he'll have to race clean and it's hard to imagine that he'll run anywhere near as well as he has.
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I agree. I know earlier in the thread CJ mentioned his suspicions over the style of running tops off layoffs (just paraphrasing and not saying he agrees with my post here) but who is the maestro of that maneuver?
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03-10-2020, 10:25 AM
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#172
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
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I don't think it's even possible to clean up the sport
because of technology synthetic drugs can be manufactured that mimic the effects of the original drugs
there are no tests for these drugs and when there are they will simply manufacture a slightly different version that no test has been developed to detect
this is similar to what has happened with street drugs that druggies use to get high
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...esigner-drugs/
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I agree, though you would think some of these people who have been in the trouble in the past, which some of these 27 people have been, would not have been let continue in the sport.
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03-10-2020, 10:26 AM
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#173
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhenry81
I wonder if this explains why Benter and Woods chose Hong Kong?
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They chose Hong Kong because of pool size/liquidity.
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03-10-2020, 10:36 AM
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#174
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I agree, though you would think some of these people who have been in the trouble in the past, which some of these 27 people have been, would not have been let continue in the sport.
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Navarro was his own worst enemy when the “vegetable juice” video surfaced on August 4th 2017 and NJ had their chance to get rid of this trainer they simply slapped him on the wrist with a $5000 fine, why? Because his 100 plus horses at MP could have severely impacted racing there if those horses left. Three years later the guy gets taken down in a huge horse doping scandal with a Mr. Peabody trainer Jason Servis as well. This industry needs to stop the insanity of not removing those who are repeat offenders quick enough!
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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03-10-2020, 11:24 AM
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#175
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses
I agree. I know earlier in the thread CJ mentioned his suspicions over the style of running tops off layoffs (just paraphrasing and not saying he agrees with my post here) but who is the maestro of that maneuver?
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One example that makes me not trust Baffert is Arrogate. That career looks very suspicious.
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03-10-2020, 11:28 AM
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#176
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
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I don't think it's even possible to clean up the sport
because of technology synthetic drugs can be manufactured that mimic the effects of the original drugs
there are no tests for these drugs and when there are they will simply manufacture a slightly different version that no test has been developed to detect
this is similar to what has happened with street drugs that druggies use to get high
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...esigner-drugs/
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It is never possible to clean up 100%. But it is possible to do a lot better than the sport is doing.
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03-10-2020, 11:29 AM
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#177
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Flint Hills
Posts: 474
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IMO lifetime bans are in order, but I doubt even that would stop them. They would just resume working behind the scene with others at the tracks who are willing to try anything to grab quick money.
Regardless, it's always nice when the good guys come through with a cleanup once in a while.
__________________
"Better to do little well than more poorly." Appy
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03-10-2020, 11:31 AM
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#178
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Yes, it's very easy to do everything "the right way" when everything is under one management team and one security team and one vet team etc. etc. etc.
I love when people try and point to Hong Kong as the model and think why can't that work over here? It should be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy, right?
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It occurred to me the reason the cheating operations described in the indictments grew to become SO rampant and SO widespread is because here in the US we don't have anything like the Hong Kong Model.
Instead we have more than 30 individual state regulatory bodies where many of the people doing the regulating will look the other way if they can because they don't want to come down too harshly on one of their own.
The way most of them become regulators in the first place is when the Governor's Office appoints them from a short list of names provided by lobbyists from the local horsemen's alphabet group.
Imo, under such a system there's little chance of integrity.
Imo, our system here in the US is broken because the regulatory body isn't independent from those it is supposed to be regulating.
Had we adopted something like the Hong Kong model 10-15 years ago:
I think some of the US horsemen would still be making attempts to cheat. (At this point I'm half convinced it's embedded in their DNA.)
But I also think the cheating itself would be taking place on a much smaller scale because the regulatory body would be making an effort to I don't know... actually regulate.
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 03-10-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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03-10-2020, 11:36 AM
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#179
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: new york
Posts: 1,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Yes, it's very easy to do everything "the right way" when everything is under one management team and one security team and one vet team etc. etc. etc.
I love when people try and point to Hong Kong as the model and think why can't that work over here? It should be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy, right?
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its not only hong kong, austrailia, ireland, england to name a few other countries that are above board.
the "united states is too big, alibi", grows old. if you seek and expect excellence that is what you will get most times. if you just throw up your hands in despair, you become second rate in every thing. my two cents
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03-10-2020, 11:43 AM
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#180
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acorn54
its not only hong kong, austrailia, ireland, england to name a few other countries that are above board.
the "united states is too big, alibi", grows old. if you seek and expect excellence that is what you will get most times. if you just throw up your hands in despair, you become second rate in every thing. my two cents
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Also, "the US is so big it will be impossible to achieve HK levels of cleanness" is a good argument. "The US is so big it is impossible to implement a much stricter regime analogous to Hong Kong" is not a good argument.
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