Would you support Go Fund Me Campaign with your $$$ to fight the Keeneland Take Hike?

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

I would agree in general, but there is something to be said for the bleeding (no pun to be intended) of customers due to death by a trillion paper cuts. In that sense, I'm kind of honest with myself. It isn't any one thing that pushes you out, but it's all the little things that gradually land you in a spot where you'd rather watch re-runs of Live PD than watch replays of races and hunt for action. I'm hardly a huge Keeneland customer anyway these days, but something like this certainly makes it a whole lot easier to watch more Live PD in lieu of Keeneland.

I'm hooked on Live PD.

The odd thing is, I'd never be hooked on Live PD a few years ago because I'd be playing Hollywood Park. Or when they're not racing, studying for the Saturday cards.

How quickly things change.

[Track Phantom]

Money might be better spent to market "goodness" of tracks that do produce a viable product for the players. Don't recall what Oaklawn Park takeout is but I think it's within bounds. They offer a great product, full fields, don't drag their post times, etc. I think overstating this in a variety of ways to the betting community might be a better direction.

I actually don't know what can be done in a meaningful way to curb this issue of higher takeout. My instinct says the price of anything is up to each individual. They can choose to "buy" it or pass because the price is too steep. Hard to coalesce a big group of anonymous players.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[Tom]

Is anyone seriously addicted enough to have to bet that pay toilet pf a track? It's a couple of lousy weeks twice year. Gut it out - bet $0 there and send them to bankruptcy. No one needs Keeneland to survive.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter Poll with 89 votes in

Yes = 33%

No = 67%

We need to get Keeneland down 25% or more. Contributing money is a really good indicator of how successful it would be.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by cj

People say this a lot, but horseplayers are walking away and have been for a while now. You basically have done it yourself I believe. I know I don't bet near what I used to bet. It isn't because I don't want to do so. It is because the pickings are slim when it comes to wagers I think offer value.

I personally don't bet for entertainment. I bet to win money, even if that doesn't always happen. The $2 bettors and the "big day" crowd types can have their days, but that won't carry the sport, not as it is constructed now.

Agreed. I'll amend my comments. Not enough horse players are walking away

[GMB@BP]

I bet and follow the racing for entertainment pretty much. I know you really cant win with the takeouts and racings structures the way they are. I have also learned they wont change, they will just bleed out over time.

15 years ago I bet over a couple hundred grand a year, I dont pretend thats a lot but thats what 30k in takout or so? I bet maybe 15k a year now.

If racing loses a person like me (connections and worked in the industry) how can they hope of keeping the more traditional betting masses?

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

Twitter poll now has 128 votes

Yes = 34%

No = 66%

Seems like there are a number of experienced players on this board who don't want to donate but will boycott on their own in their own way and that's cool too.

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 08-12-2017 at 01:37 PM.

[Jeff P]

Raising money privately for a good cause isn't terribly difficult.

The key is getting some real bang for your buck out of the money you've raised.


-jp

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[highnote]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Here's what I think, in a nutshell:

The effect of the takeout can only be properly determined when we take the totality of the racing product into consideration. If the fields are full and competitive, then the profit-minded player can still find worthwhile bets...even if the win-takeout is at 17.5%. But if a track offers an overabundance of uncompetitive 6-horse fields...then the lucrative bets dry up, even if the takeout stands at 14%. These takeout rates don't operate in a vacuum...their effect is dependent on other things.

If a bettor likes the races at Keeneland for the size of the fields and the overall "value" that he finds there...but hates the races in NY because of the plethora of short fields that are offered there...then the takeout difference between the two tracks isn't likely to make him change his mind about these two racetracks.

IMO...Keeneland can get away with charging these higher takeouts...because it's an abbreviated, "marquee" meet, with competitive racing. But this will be interpreted as "horseplayer stupidity" by the other tracks...and we'll soon see these increased takeouts even at the places where the 6-horse fields dominate. It's the PRECEDENT that I rail against...not the Keeneland takeout hike in particular. As a serious bettor...I can easily avoid a particular track that I deem "overly-greedy". But I am left with no track to play when that "greed" spreads everywhere else.

Good points.

When I was with HANA I tossed out the suggestion that HANA should organize enough horseplayers to raise money to buy a racetrack. I think Thistledown was on the market at the time.

If horseplayers would buy the track this would give them a chance to put their ideas in action.

My idea was shot down as being unrealistic. Not everyone is an entrepreneur.

My belief is that nothing is unrealistic. If you put your mind to it, make it a priority, and are determined that failure is not an option, then you will succeed.

Anyone know of any distressed racetracks?

What would it cost to buy land, build a track, and offer a simulcasting-only product? You don't need a big grandstand nowadays. You put together a field of 12 cheap claimers 9 times a night with low takeout and you'll have a shot at having a nice little business.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by highnote

Good points.

When I was with HANA I tossed out the suggestion that HANA should organize enough horseplayers to raise money to buy a racetrack. I think Thistledown was on the market at the time.

If horseplayers would buy the track this would give them a chance to put their ideas in action.

My idea was shot down as being unrealistic. Not everyone is an entrepreneur.

My belief is that nothing is unrealistic. If you put your mind to it, make it a priority, and are determined that failure is not an option, then you will succeed.

Anyone know of any distressed racetracks?

What would it cost to buy land, build a track, and offer a simulcasting-only product? You don't need a big grandstand nowadays. You put together a field of 12 cheap claimers 9 times a night with low takeout and you'll have a shot at having a nice little business.

could you even distribute a signal if you lower take?

From what I understand that has been an issue, seems like Ellis Park had some signal issues when they lowered track takeout a few years ago.

[Andy Asaro]

We need practical solutions specifically to counter the Keeneland takeout hike.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

could you even distribute a signal if you lower take?

From what I understand that has been an issue, seems like Ellis Park had some signal issues when they lowered track takeout a few years ago.

I don't know all the economics of today's racetrack business.

Why would low takeout make it hard to distribute a signal? Because of the horsemen?

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

We need practical solutions specifically to counter the Keeneland takeout hike.

Sorry. Wrong thread for talking about buying racetracks. I'll start it somewhere else.

GMB -- check out off topic. how to start a racetrack business.

[lamboguy]

i have given to people in the racing business that have had some hard luck and injuries.

donating to boycott against a race track doesn't do anything for me